Quotes from American Founding Fathers

Originally posted by Ullr
Yeah just a few insignificant things like law, matematics, astronomy, and let's not forget the all important brewing.

You forgot secular morality.

Originally posted by sumydid
Quit lying.

You know for a fact that every advancement and positive mechanism in the last 2,000 years has Christianity alone to thank. And every negative step backward is because of the cancer and plague called Paganism.

The only question is, how many atrocities have you personally committed upon civilization? If I were to guess, it would take more than 2 hands to count.

Burn! 😠

I can't work out if your being serious.

Christianity has done almost nothing good for civilisation ever.
Almost every advancement, both moral and scientific, has been done despite religion not because of it.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Maybe, I did not have a very good American History teacher or else I
was daydreaming during that part.

Whatever man. Ignorance is no excuse. You found out information you didn't like about someone you held in high esteem. Instead of respecting the fact that they saw the world different than you, you turn around and call him a bad President.

I am curious. After reading some quotes about Franklin "Lighthouse are more useful than churches" Do you think he wasn't good at what he did anymore? Here you thought he was a this great man of faith, but he turned out to be a man of science. Hell, you probably thought God was responsible for his experiments with electricity.

Originally posted by RJHinds
[b]I did not realize how ignorant Thomas Jefferson was. I guess that is why
he was not a very important president.

RJ, Jefferson was perhaps the most accomplished and brilliant presidents the US has ever had, or will have.

What other president has credentials that comes close to Jefferson? He was a statesman, philosopher, architect, musician, inventor, and writer. He wrote the Declaration of Independence which the US used to declare itself free from the British Empire. He served in the House of Burgesses, in the Continental Congress, in the French court, as governor of Virginia, as Secretary of State, and as Vice President before becoming president.

Jefferson helped avert a strong centralized government during his time by opposing the Federalist party. His political philosophy was to protect the rights and liberties of the individual. It was Jefferson's democratic views, and his enduring faith in the individual that helped turn the country away from class rule by the Federalists.

What is ironic is that Jefferson was the first Democrat and began the Democrat party. However, as we can see today, the party has been turned on its head. Now the Democrat party represents a strong centralized government and a ruling elite class. Jefferson helped defeat the notorious Alien and Sedition Laws in 1789, which assumed sweeping powers over critics of the government. In fact, I could see a Democrat supporting similar legislation today.

So if Jefferson was not a Christian, why would that make him a bad President? Is whether someone is a Christian how you pick your doctor, or lawyer, or hair stylist? Does the fact that they say they are a Christian make them an expert at anything they do?

Jefferson was definately not averse to the Christian faith. In fact, from what I have read about him he agreed with the teachings of Christ. He simply did not buy into the fact that he was divine. If so, more is the pity, but I think he was still used by the Almighty to accomplish his purposes. In fact, we could sure use him today!!

Originally posted by usmc7257
Hell, you probably thought God was responsible for his experiments with electricity.[/b]

Where did the lightening come from Spanky? 😛

Originally posted by googlefudge
I can't work out if your being serious.

Christianity has done almost nothing good for civilisation ever.
Almost every advancement, both moral and scientific, has been done despite religion not because of it.

😀


I hate to have to add the smiley at the end of a super-sarcastic statement because it takes away from the effect.

Originally posted by whodey
Where did the lightening come from Spanky? 😛

Zeus, of course! Duh.

Originally posted by usmc7257
Whatever man. Ignorance is no excuse. You found out information you didn't like about someone you held in high esteem. Instead of respecting the fact that they saw the world different than you, you turn around and call him a bad President.

I am curious. After reading some quotes about Franklin "Lighthouse are more useful than churches" Do you think he w cience. Hell, you probably thought God was responsible for his experiments with electricity.

Here is my favorite Ben Franklin quote.

"It would be thought a hard government that should tax its people one tenth part."

It cracks me up everytime I read it.

Originally posted by RJHinds
At least some of them did and I am sure, as George Washington said,
God's providence was at work in establishing this land of the free.

Glad you are quoting Washington a 100% deist if ever there was one.

Originally posted by sumydid
You are incorrect. Corporations (hence OWS) are already cutting the fat and thinning their ranks. They are hoarding their profits, waiting for an administration to take over that will legislate some consistency and quit moving the goal posts so they know what the parameters are.

This administration legislates 10 new regulations a day. Hence, corporatio ...[text shortened]... Obamacare and Dodd-Frank, the economy will *boom* possibly like we've never seen it in history.

yes, and all this despite the bush tax cuts. the hoarding has nothing to do with taxes. it's because of the uncertain economy created by the neo-con policies of bush.

but the roots of the problem was planted long before bush. we need to go back to pre-reagan economic policies and raise the corporate tax rate up to 60%
that will fix every problem we face today and keep america in the position of leading nation.

Originally posted by sumydid
Corporations pay payroll taxes, investment income taxes, supply benefits to the workers, and keep people employed. Taxing them more may seem fair on the surface but the net result is they will quit supplying benefits, quit investing, and fire MORE people. Is that the result you are looking for?

It's not a revenue problem for our bloated, out-of-control-spending government. It's a spending problem.

I remember when I was in the Military, the Fat-cats in congress were
quick to vote to raise their own high salaries while freezing ours. That
is the way with most all people in power. They are more likely to look
out for their own welfare than those of others.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
yes, and all this despite the bush tax cuts. the hoarding has nothing to do with taxes. it's because of the uncertain economy created by the neo-con policies of bush.

but the roots of the problem was planted long before bush. we need to go back to pre-reagan economic policies and raise the corporate tax rate up to 60%
that will fix every problem we face today and keep america in the position of leading nation.

You are a complete economic idiot. It is obvious you have not had any
training in economics. Here is someting you can start with:

http://www.fee.org/pdf/books/Economics_in_one_lesson.pdf

Originally posted by googlefudge
I can't work out if your being serious.

Christianity has done almost nothing good for civilisation ever.
Almost every advancement, both moral and scientific, has been done despite religion not because of it.

Christianity has done almost nothing good for civilisation ever.

unbelievable outrageous statement, what about the social reformers of the nineteenth
century? motivated primarily by their religious convictions? the Christian
philanthropists? The Christian artists? In fact, the Bible itself has influenced much of
western art, literature and music as if you didn't know that already, you ungrateful
wretch!

science has done nothing but bring us to the most precarious time in our history
through over exploitation of the earth's resources and greed! where is your
materialistic morality now? feel your bum and get a sense of reality.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Christianity has done almost nothing good for civilisation ever.

unbelievable outrageous statement, what about the social reformers of the nineteenth
century? motivated primarily by their religious convictions? the Christian
philanthropists? The Christian artists? In fact, the Bible itself has influenced much of
western art, literature ...[text shortened]... greed! where is your
materialistic morality now? feel your bum and get a sense of reality.

I never said Christians never did anything good.
They just didn't do it because they were Christian,
And their religion didn't make them good artists, or philanthropists.

And if you can't see the good science has done then you are even more of an idiot than I already thought you were.

It's frankly embarrassing we live in the same nation.

Every major moral advance was done against the prevailing religious view, modern Christian sensibilities are secular,
they don't match what the bible or 'god' said but were changed due to secular influences, always lagging behind and
only changing when they had to or risk becoming totally irrelevant.

Secular morality trumps theistic morality every time.
And science and reason trumps faith and ignorance every time.

Tell Galileo about how great Christianity is.

Read the 'morality' demonstrated in your bible and compare it with what is acceptable today and you will see what secular morality
has achieved against religions tyranny.