"Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God"

Originally posted by @fmf
How far should Christians be able to go, while still acting in a morally sound and Biblically supported way ~ in your own view, as a Christian yourself ~ in terms of the measures taken to eradicate current day slavery, and how is it affected - if at all - by the role that Christianity played in the abolition of legal slavery in the past?

There were loads of outstanding Christian abolitionists.

And there were otherss who were against it, and some of them for extremely nuanced reasons. It'd take an appreciation of historical context and a lot of ability to be nuanced and not cross your wires to ever have an intellectual discussion or ponder these things, though. I am not sure if you are up to the task -- not sure how much bandwidth we got up there for you to be abel to appreciate these kinds of things. But maybe you could surprise us.

How far should people go, geez. I don't know.

I do not take any action currently to end abortion or end human trafficking.

I talk a lot.

But I am not like sending myself to jail with violent resistance or spending all my free time protesting.

What do you think I should be doing?

Would you appreciate it if I began blowing up abortion clinics? Of course, no one would, because that is not the task of the private citizen, and it goes against the democratic institutions of America and other nations...

Maybe, as citizens, we do not have to take the whole burden of every occurring catastrophe on our shoulders, and we should not be scared to simply face our personal realities more and try to improve what is around us. IDK.

Originally posted by @philokalia
It's quite a giant leap to say that you are obligated as a Christian to kill people.

Can you think of any situations [in the context of tyranny/oppression] where a Christian is?

Originally posted by @philokalia
It'd be foolish to just commit ourselves to some position like "OH you can kill people if you think something is slavery and wrong," because the applications of that are ridiculously broad, and there's no theoloical grounds for that.

No one has asked you to commit yourself to some position that is "ridiculously broad" and for which you think there are no theological grounds. You have been invited repeatedly to come up with specific scenarios of your own which would illustrate your notions of Christian "duty" to rebel and to offer your theological take on how they might be framed as "obedience to God".

Originally posted by @fmf
Can you think of any situations [in the context of tyranny/oppression] where a Christian is?

If any Christian has a belief that he can prevent rape or murder, they should attempt to do so, but we might want to say that one should not necessarily be forced to jeopardize their life in the process.

Of course, the old should sacrifice for the young always and one should strive to sacrifice within one's station in life.

But I can't really think of a universal obligation to sacrifice necessarily. And, obviously, if one can prevent something without extreme sacrifice one is obligated.

But good question.

Originally posted by @philokalia
Maybe, as citizens, we do not have to take the whole burden of every occurring catastrophe on our shoulders, and we should not be scared to simply face our personal realities more and try to improve what is around us.

No one has suggested you "have to take the whole burden of every occurring catastrophe on [your] shoulders". Your posts are littered with silly little straw men. Speaking as a Christian, do you feel there is any kind of catastrophe for which the Bible offers guidance or support as to a "duty" to rebel kicking in and regarding the nature of the rebellion?

Originally posted by @philokalia

There were loads of outstanding Christian abolitionists. And there were others who were against it, and some of them for extremely nuanced reasons. It'd take an appreciation of historical context and a lot of ability to be nuanced and not cross your wires to ever have an intellectual discussion or ponder these things, though. I am not sure if you are up to the task -- not sure how much bandwidth we got up there for you to be able to appreciate these kinds of things. But maybe you could surprise us.

Who is "us"?

Originally posted by @fmf
No one has suggested you "have to take the whole burden of every occurring catastrophe on [your] shoulders". Your posts are littered with silly little straw men. Speaking as a Christian, do you feel there is any kind of catastrophe for which the Bible offers guidance or support as to a "duty" to rebel kicking in and regarding the nature of the rebellion?

Lol, ok, like you're not fishing for spicy positions with the post and I'm strawmanning by simply stating what I'M NOT doing, and not accusing anyone directly.

The second part of the post...

Eh, I bet if I wanted to I could sit down and construct something based on the story of Esther or Nabat or even find some directly relevant parallels in Jeremiah.

But I would rather not type that from my phone and I have to cook dinner when I get home, spend time with my darling, etc., so, ehhhh....

If I make a general statement at all then I have to defend it so let's just leave it be.

Pass.

Originally posted by @fmf
[b]There were loads of outstanding Christian abolitionists. And there were others who were against it, and some of them for extremely nuanced reasons. It'd take an appreciation of historical context and a lot of ability to be nuanced and not cross your wires to ever have an intellectual discussion or ponder these things, though. I am not sure if you are up to t ...[text shortened]... able to appreciate these kinds of things. But maybe you could surprise us.

Who is "us"?[/b]

Roman's 100 9 and me, specifically.

Maybe others, too.

Originally posted by @philokalia
There's no need for it to exist as an institution in current times because we have fundamentally progressed beyond such an abysmal material reality.

For similar reasons, Serfdom was acceptable; the institution of Nobi was acceptable; polygamy was acceptable; arranged marriage to someone you did not know 800 miles away was acceptable.

And, of cour ...[text shortened]... e different options in your life depending on whether it is the year 900 BC or the year 1900 AD.

Is slavery morally acceptable, yes or no?

Originally posted by @philokalia
Roman's 100 9 and me, specifically.

Maybe others, too.

You see yourself as speaking on behalf of others? I'm curious. Because it was an odd few sentences, I mean the ones I quoted.

Originally posted by @philokalia
If I make a general statement at all then I have to defend it so let's just leave it be.

Pass.

OK, understood.

Originally posted by @divegeester
Is slavery morally acceptable, yes or no?

I think if you pick up on what Philokalia implied by what he said in the post you are replying to, he believes there can be a - presumably morally justifiable - need for slavery to exist as an institution if it is deemed economically necessary because of "material reality". It would have been really tough, for example, for the settlers in America - economically speaking - to have had to struggle along without owning slaves on account of their "material reality" not being good enough.

Originally posted by @fmf
Can you think of any situations [in the context of tyranny/oppression] where a Christian is?

Depends on who you ask.

Pope John Paul refused to take up arms against the Nazi regime, but still resisted in other ways.

Others, like Dietrich Bonhoeffer participated in the plot to kill Hitler.

Originally posted by @whodey
Depends on who you ask.

Well the thread is asking you. What about you? Does your faith create a "duty" to rebel?