Originally posted by @sonshipThat is a great verse. Thanks for posting it.
I just noticed this about some connection between YEC and the book of [b]Ecclesiastes.
Well, possibly there is this verse which says God has made it so that man cannot figure out what God has done from the beginning.
From the Amplified Bible - Ecclesiastes 3:11Ecclesiastes 3:11 Amplified Bible (AMP)[/b]
God Set Eternity in the Hear ...[text shortened]... arts, so that no man can find out the work that God does from the beginning to the end.
Originally posted by @romans1009Who is your perceived audience when you type and post stuff like this?
Maybe that verse is why FMF thought Ecclesiastes was in the New Testament.
Originally posted by @fmfI wrote that post just for you, darlin’
Who is your perceived audience when you type and post stuff like this?
Originally posted by @romans1009Maybe some quotation of it is in the NT.
Maybe that verse is why FMF thought Ecclesiastes was in the New Testament.
Here and elsewhere is an indication that without revelation there are some things we just could not know.
Of course that sometimes kills our pride !
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Originally posted by @romans1009The Bible says the earth doesn't move:
Where does the Bible say the sun moves around the earth?
Psalm 104:5
He set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be moved.
And that the sun moves around:
Ecclesiastes 1:5
The sun rises, and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises.
This is why the Church banned teaching the earth revolved around the sun. And all of this is scientifically debunked.
Rpmans1009: Maybe that verse is why FMF thought Ecclesiastes was in the New Testament.Ecclesiastes is in the OT. In it, there's a verse exhorting and requiring believers in "God" to follow his commandments. Romans1009 takes exception to the notion that in order for people to adhere to Christian beliefs they are required to obey God and Jesus' commandments.
Originally posted by @sonship
Maybe some quotation of it is in the NT.
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Originally posted by @fmfNot so, amigo. We already discussed this in another thread. Do you remember which thread it was?
Ecclesiastes is in the OT. In it, there's a verse exhorting and requiring believers in "God" to follow his commandments. Romans1009 takes exception to the notion that in order for people to adhere to Christian beliefs they are required to obey God and Jesus' commandments.
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Originally posted by @romans1009Thread 176226 Page 2 onwards.
Not so, amigo. We already discussed this in another thread. Do you remember which thread it was?
Originally posted by @vivifyI go by the King James Version and, in it, Psalm 104:5 says:
The Bible says the earth doesn't move:
[b]Psalm 104:5
He set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be moved.
And that the sun moves around:
Ecclesiastes 1:5
The sun rises, and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises.
This is why the Church banned teaching the earth revolved around the sun.[/b]
“Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.”
Ecclesiastes 1:5 in the KJV says:
“The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.”
Neither verse says the sun revolves around the earth.
Originally posted by @romans1009Well, yes and no, let's be honest here: the words imply that it is the sun that moves.
I go by the King James Version and, in it, Psalm 104:5 says:
“Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.”
Ecclesiastes 1:5 in the KJV says:
“The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.”
Neither verse says the sun revolves around the earth.
Of course, relative to the human on the ground, the sun is moving.
The Psalm says nothing of the earth spinning and thus returning to the position where the sun is, what actually happens.
But definitely in the midst of language and poetry, we always say "the sun will come up," "the sun rises," "the sun set."
Has anyone called out Little Orphan Annie for singing the sun will come out tomorrow? OF course not. Yet, for centuries already, it had been proven that the earth goes around the sun.
I would explain it like... It is a facet of language, and especially of poetic language, that that which moves in relation to us is moving, even if it is not it which is moving.
A good example would be that one could say that the moderate Democrat of the 1950s has "moved so far to the right in comparison to the moderate Democrat of 2018." In reality, it is only the moderate Democrat of 2018 that has moved, but I do not think that people would find much fault with that sentence.
Originally posted by @fmfI do not think that that is an accurate number.
If Romans1009 had spent the time he has here ~ blithering on about the Bible to a couple of atheists ~ discussing it with YEC Christians instead, it might have made sense. I don't think the world is a few thousand years old. vivfy doesn't think the world is a few thousand years old. Romans1009 doesn't think the world is a few thousand years old. However, almost ...[text shortened]... ates that the world is a few thousand years old. Romans1009 is droning on at the wrong audience.
I have met very few YEC or OEC persons as an American conservative Christian.
Originally posted by @philokaliaAlso have to consider that the Old Testament was written in Hebrew and translated into English.
Well, yes and no, let's be honest here: the words imply that it is the sun that moves.
Of course, relative to the human on the ground, the sun is moving.
The Psalm says nothing of the earth spinning and thus returning to the position where the sun is, what actually happens.
But definitely in the midst of language and poetry, we always ...[text shortened]... of 2018 that has moved, but I do not think that people would find much fault with that sentence.
May be worth investigating as some “erroneous” conclusions about the Bible have been the result of inexact Hebrew to English translations.
Originally posted by @vivifyI would love to hear you talk about genocide & slavery in the context of the Bronze Age & Iron Age I.
But yeah, getting hung up on the YEC is more important than God commanding genocide and allowing slavery.
(a) Slavery was an institution that actually preserved life -- hard currency was extraordinarily few, and it was the sole possession of top elites and merchants, and the bulk of people had nothing but rags when the harvests failed. Slavery was a means of casting oneself at the mercy of others to be preserved.
If there was no slavery, what could be done? lol.
--- Illiterate peoples writing complex contracts about payment for labor in a time before much liquid currency and... even paper..? lol?
(b) And by genocide, of course, we are talking about swearing to fight the Amelikites to death, who broke a treaty to ambush the Hebrews while en route somewhere, thus a sworn enmity and a command to vanquish them to the person.
This was in a period of time when people were massacred & destroyed to a man as a common tactic of warfare. It wouldn't be until Iron Age II that concepts like resettlement really took off. The Hebrews would have also never been able to do that because their land was far too small.
We are also probably talking about ... what... how many Amalekites could there have been?
But here I am talking about historical context to someone who is of dubious character.
Originally posted by @romans1009Right
Also have to consider that the Old Testament was written in Hebrew and translated into English.
May be worth investigating as some “erroneous” conclusions about the Bible have been the result of inexact Hebrew to English translations.
http://biblehub.com/text/ecclesiastes/1-5.htm
Apparently, the words being rendered as going from place to place talk about 'rise/set.'
The word for hasten is a single occurrence in the Bible.
Judging by similar-ish words, it references the concept of exertion. For instance, this one uses 'trample' in one context but in another 'panting for air,' etc.
It is not exclusively connected with the act of a literal movement, but the act of exertion.
http://biblehub.com/hebrew/shaafu_7602.htm