rebirth in Christianity

Originally posted by KellyJay
You heard them say "reincarnation", or being "born again" because they are not
the samething?
Kelly

what do you see as the difference?

coming back as another sentient being is reincarnation?

Originally posted by vishvahetu
The soul proper, is aware of the dream (the dream of life) because the soul is dreaming its whole existence in this world of illusion, but when the soul changes bodies, it then becomes aware of the new dream that it is involved in, and forgets the old dream.

Spiritual life and religion is meant to wake up the sleeping dreaming soul.

The only way we ...[text shortened]... s artificial reality, is if the soul is sleeping and dreaming it all up, (which it is)

vishva

But why invest in this soul if it shares none of the psychic features which constitute 'me'?

Originally posted by yavash
We should care because according to reincarnation, the actions we do, create seeds that will ripen in our current life (karma); if we are to improve and come closer to God, Enlightenment or be more spiritual then we should care what we do in this life for fututre lives

Ok but if this new incarnation shares none of my memories and there is psychological continuity, why should I be concerned for it? It is basically another person. I guess the problem for me is that I have little idea what is to be reincarnated.

Originally posted by yavash
i heard that some Christians believe in reincarnation and that entries regarding it in early texts were ommitted from early copies of the Bible? True?

We have, to what I am aware of, BEEN HERE five different times of unfulfilling what *SHALL BE* fulfilled, ~when~ Peter (Jacob, given for a spoil~ Isaiah 42 KJ orig) swallow's up death unto victory "1 Corinthians 15:54 (King James Version)

54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."...

Originally posted by Conrau K
But why invest in this soul if it shares none of the psychic features which constitute 'me'?

Because you are the soul and the soul is on a roller coaster ride called life,.... and in this world where we find ourself, there is suffering and birth death disease and old age which no one wants.

So if you invest in the soul (spiritual life) you will end the roller coaster ride, and return to the perfect spiritual world, which is your real home.

vishva

Originally posted by Thomaster
But you told, that your karma is decided by the way you live, and because we can choose how we live, we can influence our karma.

Yes true, but just being a good little boy or girl, will give you another birth in this world of suffering...but if you go beyond just being good, and become enlightened to the truth of life, then you can return to your real home in the spiritual world, where there is no sufffering, or birth death disease and old age.

vishva

Originally posted by Thomaster
But you told, that your karma is decided by the way you live, and because we can choose how we live, we can influence our karma.

error in transmission

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Because you are the soul and the soul is on a roller coaster ride called life,.... and in this world where we find ourself, there is suffering and birth death disease and old age which no one wants.

So if you invest in the soul (spiritual life) you will end the roller coaster ride, and return to the perfect spiritual world, which is your real home.

vishva

In what way am I my soul if my soul retains none of my memories nor, presumably, any of those psychological features formed in my 'dream'. I don't get why I should care about my soul if it shares none of the psychological facts which constitute me.

Originally posted by Conrau K
In what way am I my soul if my soul retains none of my memories nor, presumably, any of those psychological features formed in my 'dream'. I don't get why I should care about my soul if it shares none of the psychological facts which constitute me.

The soul is aware of the dream, and because the dream is sometimes pleasant and sometimes not, the soul keeps dreaming and doesnt make any endeavour to stop.....so the cycle of birth and death continues.

The psychological stuff thats going on in the dream, is all about the body, senses, mind, ego thinking ,feeling, willing and its dream stuff thats not actually real.....but the soul in its sleeping state is thinking its enjoying, but thats the illusion of the world, its not really real.

Just like if you dream about winning the lottery, you can actually smell the money....but when you wake,...you say oh gosh it was just a dream.

The point is, that we are suffering in this world of birth and death, and we dont have to,......we can become enlightened to the dream and wake up from it, and develope love for God, and return back to the spiritual world

vishva

Originally posted by vishvahetu
The soul is aware of the dream, and because the dream is sometimes pleasant and sometimes not, the soul keeps dreaming and doesnt make any endeavour to stop.....so the cycle of birth and death continues.

The psychological stuff thats going on in the dream, is all about the body, senses, mind, ego thinking ,feeling, willing and its dream stuff thats not ...[text shortened]... and wake up from it, and develope love for God, and return back to the spiritual world

vishva

Well written vishva =p

Originally posted by vishvahetu
The soul is aware of the dream, and because the dream is sometimes pleasant and sometimes not, the soul keeps dreaming and doesnt make any endeavour to stop.....so the cycle of birth and death continues.

The psychological stuff thats going on in the dream, is all about the body, senses, mind, ego thinking ,feeling, willing and its dream stuff thats not ...[text shortened]... and wake up from it, and develope love for God, and return back to the spiritual world

vishva

The psychological stuff thats going on in the dream, is all about the body, senses, mind, ego thinking ,feeling, willing and its dream stuff thats not actually real.

But all of that constitutes me. With a different mind, feeling and willing, that's a different person. Why should I be concerned for this other person?

Originally posted by Conrau K
But all of that constitutes me. With a different mind, feeling and willing, that's a different person. Why should I be concerned for this other person?

I have several times on this forum asked the same question about the Christian soul concept. I rarely get much of an answer.
It is usually assumed that you will have an interest, but not much actual thought is given as to why. It is also often assumed that your soul will be a continuation of your consciousness, but again, not much thought is put into whether or not that is actually possible or desirable.
My favorite example is someone with Alzheimer's who looses all their memories essentially becomes a very different person. So if they die, who continues on? The person before or after the Alzheimer's.

Originally posted by Conrau K
[b]The psychological stuff thats going on in the dream, is all about the body, senses, mind, ego thinking ,feeling, willing and its dream stuff thats not actually real.

But all of that constitutes me. With a different mind, feeling and willing, that's a different person. Why should I be concerned for this other person?[/b]

There is only one you, and you only dream one dream at a time.

Right now you are dreaming that you are a male called Conrau, that you live in Cape Town that you are etc etc.

When you die, your karma will give you another body, born in a differnent country and you will not remember Conrau......and when you are born in (lets say Iraq) you will gow up and believe you are a devout muslim etc.

This has been going on for a very long time, and the spiritual life is meant to break the spell of illusion and allow you to develope love for God....which then qualifies you to return home back to Godhead.

vishva

Originally posted by vishvahetu
There is only one you, and you only dream one dream at a time.

Right now you are dreaming that you are a male called Conrau, that you live in Cape Town that you are etc etc.

When you die, your karma will give you another body, born in a differnent country and you will not remember Conrau......and when you are born in (lets say Iraq) you will gow up ...[text shortened]... u to develope love for God....which then qualifies you to return home back to Godhead.

vishva

There is only one you, and you only dream one dream at a time.

You keep saying that but you don't really answer my objection here. How can you talk about one 'me' while at the same time saying that all the memory, thought and volition, which define me, are illusory and will be superseded by a person with a completely different psychology?

When you die, your karma will give you another body, born in a differnent country and you will not remember Conrau......and when you are born in (lets say Iraq) you will gow up and believe you are a devout muslim etc.

But why should I care about this Muslim? According to you, none of my mental life has survived. How can you meaningfully say that we are ultimately the same person?

Originally posted by twhitehead
I have several times on this forum asked the same question about the Christian soul concept. I rarely get much of an answer.
It is usually assumed that you will have an interest, but not much actual thought is given as to why. It is also often assumed that your soul will be a continuation of your consciousness, but again, not much thought is put into whe ...[text shortened]... ifferent person. So if they die, who continues on? The person before or after the Alzheimer's.

May i add something here.

The person with Alzheimer,s when he/she dies, takes a new body, and the new body (baby) doesnt have Alzheimers because its new and fresh.

Also with the new body, you get a brand new ego (identity) which is proof enough that where dreaming everything up.....and the new body comes with a blank consciousness because of the covering of forgetfullness, so the little freshly born baby, has to start learning all over again.

If there born in India, they will learn Indian, and if they are born in England, they will learn English obviously.

vishva