rebirth in Christianity

Originally posted by twhitehead
I have several times on this forum asked the same question about the Christian soul concept. I rarely get much of an answer.
It is usually assumed that you will have an interest, but not much actual thought is given as to why. It is also often assumed that your soul will be a continuation of your consciousness, but again, not much thought is put into whe ...[text shortened]... ifferent person. So if they die, who continues on? The person before or after the Alzheimer's.

I think the Christian in this case has a better idea. At least in the case of the Christian, there is some psychological continuity, putting aside the issues you mentioned. What vishvahetu proposes however is that there is no psychological continuity and yet the same person exists. I don't get it.

Originally posted by Conrau K
[b]There is only one you, and you only dream one dream at a time.

You keep saying that but you don't really answer my objection here. How can you talk about one 'me' while at the same time saying that all the memory, thought and volition, which define me, are illusory and will be superseded by a person with a completely different psychology?

Wh ...[text shortened]... ental life has survived. How can you meaningfully say that we are ultimately the same person?

Thats just it, your not the same person,...every time you take a new body, you are a different person, with a different psychology and thats the illusionary nature of this world......but you can bring into the next life traits from your old life.

This person where talking about is the dream person, and the dream person doesnt actually exist....it exists only in the dream and when you look in the mirror, the person you see is not real, but an illusion.

Your body and false identification with the body is an illusion (its not real)

Under hypnosis people have remembered the life before, because they are taken back into their sub-consciosness.

The (one you) keeps changing your identity every time you take a new body.

The real you is the soul, and it is in a sleeping condition, dreaming all this up....and the soul goes to every new body you take.

vishva

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Thats just it, your not the same person,...every time you take a new body, you are a different person, with a different psychology and thats the illusionary nature of this world......but you can bring into the next life traits from your old life.

This person where talking about is the dream person, and the dream person doesnt actually exist....it exist ...[text shortened]... eping condition, dreaming all this up....and the soul goes to every new body you take.

vishva

Thats just it, your not the same person,...every time you take a new body, you are a different person, with a different psychology and thats the illusionary nature of this world......but you can bring into the next life traits from your old life.

Ok. So the question remains, why should I care? As you said, it is a different person. There is no probability that we share any similarities. I do not care for my alter-dream-self.

Originally posted by Conrau K
[b]Thats just it, your not the same person,...every time you take a new body, you are a different person, with a different psychology and thats the illusionary nature of this world......but you can bring into the next life traits from your old life.

Ok. So the question remains, why should I care? As you said, it is a different person. There is no probability that we share any similarities. I do not care for my alter-dream-self.[/b]

ok, someone might care, and someone might not care......doesnt matter care or not......but

the life we live, and the next, and the next, is all suffering, nearly everyone struggles for existence and we have to put up with old age, disease and finally death.....then theres wars, racism,poverty, crime, cheating tactics in nearly every business dealing, and if we dont work we dont pay our rent or eat etc,etc.

So spiritual life is the only way to wake up from the dream, and stop the repeated cycle of birth and death, because the aim is to return back to our real home in the eternal spiritual sky (no suffering)

vishva

Originally posted by Conrau K
I think the Christian in this case has a better idea. At least in the case of the Christian, there is some psychological continuity, putting aside the issues you mentioned. What vishvahetu proposes however is that there is no psychological continuity and yet the same person exists. I don't get it.

The psychological properties of a person are not a continuation into the next life, if you love pasta in this life, you wont nescessarily like pasta in the next one.

But anything connected to the spiritual psychology of the person may very well be awakened in the next life.

For example, if you are a seeker of truth, and search for meaning in this life, your karma in the next life, will offer you an opportunity to revive that connection, to continue your spiritual quest.

vishva

Originally posted by Conrau K
I think the Christian in this case has a better idea. At least in the case of the Christian, there is some psychological continuity, putting aside the issues you mentioned. What vishvahetu proposes however is that there is no psychological continuity and yet the same person exists. I don't get it.

Christianity in this case is a bit bizarre i feel as it supposes that we come out of nothing (in that we didnt exist before we were born) and then are around forever (heaven or hell)

this to me is as bizarre as its opposite; existing forever and then nothing.

either we are here just the once finished the end or
existance is cyclic, ever changing

thoughts?

Originally posted by yavash
Christianity in this case is a bit bizarre i feel as it supposes that we come out of nothing (in that we didnt exist before we were born) and then are around forever (heaven or hell)

this to me is as bizarre as its opposite; existing forever and then nothing.

either we are here just the once finished the end or
existance is cyclic, ever changing

thoughts?

"You come from nothing, you're going back to nothing. What have you lost? Nothing!"

Originally posted by vishvahetu
ok, someone might care, and someone might not care......doesnt matter care or not......but

the life we live, and the next, and the next, is all suffering, nearly everyone struggles for existence and we have to put up with old age, disease and finally death.....then theres wars, racism,poverty, crime, cheating tactics in nearly every business dealing, a ...[text shortened]... the aim is to return back to our real home in the eternal spiritual sky (no suffering)

vishva

So we are just having a nightmare, and you know how to wake up.
But are you then an illusion? Do you really exist, or am I dreaming you?

Originally posted by vishvahetu
ok, someone might care, and someone might not care......doesnt matter care or not......but

the life we live, and the next, and the next, is all suffering, nearly everyone struggles for existence and we have to put up with old age, disease and finally death.....then theres wars, racism,poverty, crime, cheating tactics in nearly every business dealing, a ...[text shortened]... the aim is to return back to our real home in the eternal spiritual sky (no suffering)

vishva

So spiritual life is the only way to wake up from the dream, and stop the repeated cycle of birth and death, because the aim is to return back to our real home in the eternal spiritual sky (no suffering)

BEAUTIFUL

Originally posted by yavash
Christianity in this case is a bit bizarre i feel as it supposes that we come out of nothing (in that we didnt exist before we were born) and then are around forever (heaven or hell)

this to me is as bizarre as its opposite; existing forever and then nothing.

either we are here just the once finished the end or
existance is cyclic, ever changing

thoughts?

Lets all understand one thing, something cannot come from nothing.

The illusion of the world is an offering by the spiritual world, as a playground for the souls who want to exist apart from God.

Because nothing is apart from God, we can only think we are apart from God in an illusion....because the idea of "seperatedness" cannot be an absolute reality.

We all came from the eternal spiritual dimension, and we think we are apart from God, and this is the super excellant plan of God to forefill the desire of the soul for independance from God.

When the soul realizes that independance from God is an illusion, then they can decide to follow the spiritual path of liberation and wake up from the dream, and return home , back to Godhead.

vishva

Originally posted by Thomaster
So we are just having a nightmare, and you know how to wake up.
But are you then an illusion? Do you really exist, or am I dreaming you?

Look at the world we live in, suffering to the left, and suffering to the right....it is a nightmare.

But for the person on the spiritual path, it is no longer a nightmare, because they have the higher consciouness and can destinguish what is real and what is not.

Because they have compassion for all the living beings that are under the spell of illusion then that is their suffering, to see the suffering of others.

Everyone remembers the image of the buddhist monk setting himself on fire in protest, just sitting there amongst the flames, without a care in the world. (his consciousness was out of his body)

The person with higher consciousness will still bleed and still get a cold, and still experiance pain, but the suffering because of those occurances is almost non existant....depending on how enlightened and realized they are, and they are aware that their time in this world is but a temporary position, and they understand that their real home in the spiritual sky is not far coming.

vishva

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Look at the world we live in, suffering to the left, and suffering to the right....it is a nightmare.

But for the person on the spiritual path, it is no longer a nightmare, because they have the higher consciouness and can destinguish what is real and what is not.

Because they have compassion for all the living beings that are under the spell of i ...[text shortened]... tion, and they understand that their real home in the spiritual sky is not far coming.

vishva

AMEN

Meh...if someone was to suggest that tacoandlettuce was a sockpuppet of vishvahetu or his little brother you'd get no arguments from me. :]

Originally posted by Agerg
Meh...if someone was to suggest that tacoandlettuce was a sockpuppet of vishvahetu or his little brother you'd get no arguments from me. :]

Well my friend,

regardless what you care to express of your view of me, I will always love you, and ever have and ever shall, which is eternity!

I love all and only shall, however LIVING this properly "always" is extremely difficult, and I am working all rectification of "not doing so", please do not give up on me...

Originally posted by tacoandlettuce
Well my friend,

regardless what you care to express of your view of me, I will always love you, and ever have and ever shall, which is eternity!

I love all and only shall, however LIVING this properly "always" is extremely difficult, and I am working all rectification of "not doing so", please do not give up on me...

You cheapen the notion of loving someone when it applies to complete strangers with whom you have had practically zero interaction.