Refuting Rajk999ism

Originally posted by Rajk999

Says it here plainly but they chose to twist it .. it is IMPOSSIBLE TO RENEW THEM TO REPENTANCE ..

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
(Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV)

It is as impossible as it is impossible to be born again twice.

Notice, Rajk999 does not show where the examination of the verses I did are wrong. No. He only repeats the assertion.

Some of us can tell the difference between standing unmoved from the word of God and just being plain stubborn.

Rajk999 doesn't show why "the age to come" should not be the temporary millennial kingdom.

Rajk999 doesn't show that the thorns and thistles have to stand for the believer himself rather than the works of the believer.

Rajk999 is totally silent on the plain teaching of First Corinthians 3:14,15 about losing the reward yet being saved as through fire. I think he feels ignoring it will make it go away.

Rajk999 doesn't refute me that to be near a curse or near cursing is not the same as actually being cursed.

What do we have from Rajk999ism ? We have him give a hearty amen to a Jehovah's Witness. And we have him simply re-assert his interpretation.

I expect no more from him.

A for Robbie, I am waiting for him to prove that in the Gospel of Matthew entering into the kingdom of the heavens only means being eternally redeemed.

Let me ask reluctant Robbie a few questions if he supports Rajk999ism:

Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the kingdom of the heavens (Matt. 5:5)

I know an atheist or two who is kind of meek. They don't fight or argue. They just don't believe that God exists.

Will they inherit the kingdom of the heavens Robbie ?

I know some Hare Krishnas who are meeker than some Christians.
Will these Hare Krishnas inherit the kingdom of the heavens Robbie ?

I could probably find a witch or Satan worshipper or two who doesn't debate or argue much. They just happen to believe that they should worship Satan and not follow Jesus Christ.

Will these meek witches and Satanists inherit the kingdom of the heavens Robbie ?

Luke 6:20 says "Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God."

There are myriads of people whose houses have been foreclosed on or are in debt over their head. There are plenty of homeless people who are poor.

Robbie, are they all going to automatically inherit the kingdom of God even if they are atheists ?

Originally posted by sonship
Notice, Rajk999 does not show where the examination of the verses I did are wrong. No. He only repeats the assertion.

Some of us can tell the difference between standing unmoved from the word of God and just being plain stubborn.

Rajk999 doesn't show why [b]"the age to come" should not be the temporary millennial kingdom.

Rajk999 doesn' ...[text shortened]... bbie, are they all going to automatically inherit the kingdom of God even if they are atheists ?[/b]

The ones DOING the Will of the father will inherit the Kingdom Jaywill, did I not make that clear enough?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
not all sins are forgiven and no everyone saying Lord Lord will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, jaywillism has been refuted!

Doesn't the bible say that only 144,000 will enter into the kingdom of heaven? I thought it was pretty clear on that part.

The ones DOING the Will of the father will inherit the Kingdom Jaywill, did I not make that clear enough?

You did not answer my questions specifically. You gave another reply in order to avoid talking about details. Okay, let's take your answer. It certainly is true. But let's look a little closer.

Matthew 5:19 - "Therefore whoever annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called the least in the kingdom of the heavens; but whoever practices and teaches them shall be call great in the kingdom of the heavens."

Here Jesus compares TWO persons who are "IN the kingdom of the heavens." They are BOTH "in the the kingdom of the heavens".

Jesus says one will be called "great IN the kingdom of the heavens."
Jesus says the other will be called "least IN the kingdom of the heavens."

Jesus said the one called "great in the kingdom" is the one who practiced His commandments and taught men to do so.
Jesus said the one called "least in the kingdom" is the one who "annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaching men so... "


QUESTION - Did both do the will of God to the same degree ?

My Answer: Obviously not to the same degree. Therefore though BOTH partake of the kingdom of the heavens, the one who practiced and taught the will of God is called "great" and the one less so is called "least".

Since BOTH are IN the kingdom of the heavens then the matter of doing the Father's will, as you quoted above, must be not an absolute matter but a relative and comparative matter.

How can you say that to annul the commandment of the Lord and teach men to do so is absolutely doing the Father's will? It is obviously hedging a bit and tolerating some not doing of the Father's will.

Now this is not an excuse to explore how little of the Father's will we can do. But it is a realistic understanding that there are DEGREES of cooperating with the Father's will.

Therefore in the kingdom of the heavens there are also DEGREES of honor, DEGREES of REWARD, and DEGREES of greatness according to what God esteems is great.

Up to this point, Robbie, do you agree or disagree with what I have taught above ?

Matthew 5:19 proves that there are degrees of reward in participating in the kingdom of the heavens. There is no way to argue against this.

First Corinthians 3:14,15 says some Christians whose work was of inferior quality will suffer loss. They will lose a reward.

Though they CALLED on the name of the Lord to be SAVED (Rom. 10:9) they will not receive a reward. They will suffer loss. They called "Lord, Lord" but do not participate in the kingdom of the heavens as a reward (Matt. 7:21) .

Is the suffering of their loss the losing of salvation ? Obviously not.

"If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Cor. 3:15)

Now we know that some can call "Lord, Lord" , BE SAVED, yet lose the reward of participating in the kingdom of the heavens.

What about those who are rewarded -

"If anyone's work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward." (v.14)

AND we saw from Matthew that there is the rewards in degrees. One is called great in the kingdom of the heavens and another is called least in the kingdom of the heavens.

Rajk999ism is thoroughly refuted here.
And Robbie's sympathy for an eternal salvation through works is also exposed as deficient understanding of the New Testament.

Originally posted by sonship

The ones DOING the Will of the father will inherit the Kingdom Jaywill, did I not make that clear enough?

You did not answer my questions [b]specifically. You gave another reply in order to avoid talking about details. Okay, let's take your answer. It certainly is true. But let's look a little closer.

Matthew 5:19 - [b ...[text shortened]... great.

Up to this point, Robbie, do you agree or disagree with what I have taught above ?[/b]

baderdash, do you or do not not agree that Jesus is saying that there are those who profess to be Christians who give nothing more than lip service (who are workers of lawlessness) and those who are doing the will of the father?

Originally posted by MISTER CHESS
Doesn't the bible say that only 144,000 will enter into the kingdom of heaven? I thought it was pretty clear on that part.

Indeed my illustrious friend, it does!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Indeed my illustrious friend, it does!

He's trolling. I think MISTER CHESS just wants to stir up strife.

Originally posted by sonship
He's trolling. I think MISTER CHESS just wants to stir up strife.

You never mind that, Jaywillism is on trial! and a hand appears to write something on the wall!

baderdash, do you or do not not agree that Jesus is saying that there are those who profess to be Christians who give nothing more than lip service (who are workers of lawlessness) and those who are doing the will of the father?

Yes I agree that Jesus is saying just saying Lord, Lord without doing the will of His Father as He spells out in the entire book of Matthew, may not be enough to qualify the believer to participate in the kingdom of the heavens.


But WHAT is the ISSUE being debated ?

We are talking about is ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF THE HEAVENS exactly = ETERNAL REDEMPTION; ETERNAL LIFE.

Do YOU not agree that a Christian may lose reward but be saved yet so as through fire ?

The millennial kingdom is a REWARD.

Eternity is a GIFT.


To Rajk999ism and possibly to your view the only manner of suffering LOSS is to lose the GIFT of eternal salvation. And that is wrong.

Originally posted by sonship

baderdash, do you or do not not agree that Jesus is saying that there are those who profess to be Christians who give nothing more than lip service (who are workers of lawlessness) and those who are doing the will of the father?

Yes I agree that Jesus is saying just saying Lord, Lord without doing the will of His Father as He spells out ...[text shortened]... b]only manner of suffering LOSS is to lose the GIFT of eternal salvation. And that is wrong.[/b]

what is a worker of lawlessness jaywill, in your opinion? Is it referring to believers or unbelievers?

There are many letters to churches in the New Testament. There is much dealing with problems, difficulties, disobediences, rebellions, failures, backsliddings, insubordinations.

The first letter to the Corinthian church contains many typical problems of Christian congregations. There is no utopian situation recorded in these letters showing a church without any problems.

What is Rajk999ism ? It is the obsession that the ONLY remedy to the problems of immaturity among Christians is to teach them that they will LOSE their eternal salvation.

This is like a quack doctor who has only one medicine for every illness. This is why Rajk999 repeatedly brings up the subject no matter what the thread is about. It is his ONLY remedy for any incongruous spiritual situation - threaten the believer that he will lose her or his eternal redemption.

He's been refuted and is going to undergo more refuting to come.

Originally posted by sonship
There are many letters to churches in the New Testament. There is much dealing with problems, difficulties, disobediences, rebellions, failures, backsliddings, insubordinations.

The first letter to the Corinthian church contains many typical problems of Christian congregations. There is no utopian situation recorded in these letters showing a church with ...[text shortened]... r his eternal redemption.

He's been refuted and is going to undergo more refuting to come.

I think RakK has a scriptural basis for his assertion, its quite clear that there are persons who were Christians who are not redeemable, he posted a scriptural reference to back up his claim.

what is a worker of lawlessness jaywill, in your opinion? Is it referring to believers or unbelievers?

To be without doing the Father's will certainly is lawlessness.

The issue here is not "How lawless can we be?"
The issue is not that lawlessness should be encouraged or discouraged.
Of course it is to be avoided and discouraged.

These matters are beside the point of distinguishing between "GIFT" and "REWARD".

Now I know where Robbie wants to go. Look at the one who is reprimanded for being lawless. Look at how severe the rebuke is. Look at how serious the rebuke is. It is really serious.

"And then I will declare to them: I never knew you. Depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness." (Matt. 7:23)

These are the questions that need to be asked:

1.) Can a person know Jesus as SAVIOR but not take Him seriously as LORD ?

I say history and our experience would suggest yes. Jesus could say in essence "I may have saved you. I may have known you as Savior. But on a practical daily basis, I did not know you as your Lord."

Is such a rebuked person lost for eternity ? No.

2.) Can Jesus tell someone to depart from Him for a period of time ? Can the rebuke to "depart from me" be temporary, dispensational, with a time limit which will end?

YES. How do I know that ? I know that that is a possibility because the millennial kingdom set up by Jesus following His second coming lasts for a thousand years. That thousand years come to an end.

That thousand year kingdom is purposely set up by God BEFORE the eternal age to act as an incentive to cooperate with the grace.


Let me say that again. It is a simple concept that many Bible students don't seem to notice.

God set up the millennial kingdom before the eternal age PURPOSELY to serve as an incentive of reward for those saved to cooperate to do the Father's will.

To miss the millennial kingdom is definitely to "suffer loss" .

No one who loses the reward can postpone forever the inevitable sanctification that will conform ALL saved to the image of Christ. We may postpone the process. We may not escape from the process. We may drag our feet in the process. We cannot get OUT of the process.

Our heavenly Father is very wise. There are at His disposal there are many ways the wise Father has to get His children to mature in divine life.

"Depart from me you workers of lawlessness". In the case of the Christian who called Lord, Lord that departure from the Lord is temporary. At worst it will be 1,000 years. Maybe it will be some portion of 1,000 years as the Lord sees fit. But I do not know that for certain.

I do know that such discipline of being sent away from the Lord FOR THE CHRISTIAN cannot exceed a thousand years most probably.