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I have received (past tense) a hair cut, it does not mean that my hair will not grow again and i will need another, a nonsensical semantic argument, you are not once saved for all time,
If you do not want the assurance that you have been saved in Jesus Christ, then you go along with your lack of assurance.
The loss is yours because you won't entrust yourself to the Lord Jesus. You'd rather make up excuses to rationalize away your rejection of the Lord Jesus.
Go ahead. He will not force you to receive Him. And He will not force you to be saved.
its a non Biblical teaching as Rajk admirably points out. Christians lost their faith and did not attain again to repentance as he also points out. There is no sacrifice left for the wilful unrepentant sinner, none! absolutely none!
If I was Rajk999, I'd be concerned that my Amen Corner consists of only a Jehovah's Witness who denies the Lord Jesus Christ in favor of making Him an archangel.
Being sealed with the pledge of the Holy Spirit is not having your hair cut.
You will not be coerced or forced to be saved.
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Ephesians
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
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Next bit of Rajk999ism I address is this thought -
There is no sacrifice left for the wilful unrepentant sinner, none! absolutely none!
It is impossible for Jesus to have to die again for He died ONCE FOR ALL. This is in the same book of Hebrews -
Hebrews 9:28 - "So Christ also, having been offered ONCE to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time to those who eagerly await Him, apart from sin, unto salvation."
It is not only not good to believe that Jesus needs to die again.
It is impossible that Jesus would die again.
And it is unnecessary that Jesus would die again.
He offered Himself ONCE to bear the sins of many.
The backround of the book of Hebrews was Jewish believers left in Jerusalem who were tempted to go back to the animal sacrifices. That is they were under the temptation to go back to the Old Testament way of offering animal sacrifices.
Fallen away refers to the fact that the Hebrew Christians deviated from the pure Christian faith by returning to their old, traditional, Judiac religion.
In principle it could be applied to any Christians who falls away from the right track of God's way.
"Crucifying" and "putting" in verse 6 modify the predicate "renew" . To renew unto repentance means to repeat the repentance that has been made already; This is not needed. To do this is to crucify again the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
It is impossible that Christ would die again.
It is unnecessary that Christ would die again.
And the falling away results in the fruits being "disapproved" in verse 8. It is the same word used in First Corinthians 9:27 -
"But I buffet my body and make it my slave, lest perhaps having preached to others, I myself become disapproved."
He means have his Christian labors disqualified, rejected, counted worthless.
If the believers would not be brought on to perfection, to maturity, but rather fall back to the old things, he as a servant of God will be disapproved, be counted worthless, by God.
In the Gospels there are parables in which Jesus says in effect He will cast a worthless servant into outer darkness.
Some people jump to the conclusion that the outer darkness has to be eternal perdition in the lake of fire. What the Lord said was "outer darkness".
We do not know what or where the outer darkness is. But it is not positive. And when Jesus reigns upon the earth in glory, there must be realms that are away from Him, outside of the splendor of His presence and in outer darkness.
As the passage goes on in Hebrews chapter six it is clear that it is the vegetation and the fruits produced by the cultivated land that are burned up and not the believer who is eternally lost.
Next in the chapter we see a reference to Abraham. Abraham had failures. He attempted to save his own skin by selling his wife twice. Abraham backslide. As the so-called "father of faith" he really was an example of a typical wavering believer.
How does Hebrews assure us that God would be faithful to Abraham in this very same chapter ?
"Therefore God, intending to show more abundantly to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of His counsel, interposed with an oath,
In order that by two unchangeable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we may have strong encouragement, we who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us,
Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both secure and firm ..." (vs. 17-19)
Encouragement, confidence, assurance, reliance on the faithfulness of the oath giving God for Whom it is impossible to lie - these are the elements now communicated to the Hebrew Christians.
God will be faithful. We need to be faithful. But if we are not, God is still faithful.
The writer of Hebrews says he wants to audience to not be sluggish but be imitators of those who are inheriting the promises (v.12).
The book of Hebrews contains FIVE strong warnings. All five of these warnings are concerning failure to enter into the rest of the millennial kingdom of one thousand years.
Rajk999ism and Arminian theology take the five strong warnings in the book of Hebrews to mean the loss of eternal redemption. They do so wrongly. But as you can see once a person is addicted to that line of reasoning it is hard to help them to see the reward or loss of reward in the millennial kingdom.
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Originally posted by checkbaiterThis is good.
Ephesians
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were [b]sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.[/b]
... Who is the GUARANTEE of our inheritance ...
Some forms of self righteousness simply do not wish to be guaranteed of God's salvation.
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The Gospel of John is a book in the New Testament that definitely tells men how to receive eternal life. From the very beginning of John to the very end of John we cannot find one single occurrence of the word "repentance".
Hold on now. I did not say repentance is not important. I did not say a follower of the Lord Jesus should not repent.
What did I say ? I said that in a book which definitely labors to EXPLAIN to men and women HOW to receive eternal life we cannot find one occurrence of the word "repent" or "repentance."
The issue here is HOW to receive eternal life. There are other subjects to the Christian in the New Testament.
Why do I mention this ? It is because the Rajk999ism advocates want to emphasize that for the believers in Hebrews 6 to not be able to renew themselves to repentance is for them to be deprived of eternal life.
But where in the Gospel of John is believing PLUS repentance taught as the only means to receive eternal life to begin with?
BELIEVING - is what John writes about repeatedly.
Again, because some may have forgotten already. I am not saying repentance is not important to the normal Christian life. I am saying that in John's extensive focus on how one receives eternal life in his Gospel, he does not mention repentance ONCE.
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There is no sacrifice left for the wilful unrepentant sinner, none! absolutely none!
The need of repentance is taught in the New Testament. But John never mentions repentance as a condition to receive eternal life. John teaches that the requirement to receive eternal life is believing.
We need to beware of some teacher's misunderstanding of repentance. Some people use repentance. Repentance to some people means that you have to do something good before you can receive eternal life. This is wrong. You have to believe into Christ.
Man's mind is filled with the concept of having to earn eternal salvation. Sometimes the word "repentance" has for some a false meaning of earning eternal life. The very passage presented to prove this in Hebrews 6 says that the person has "tasted of the heavenly GIFT" (Heb. 6:4) . This is not PLURAL gifts but rather SINGULAR "heavenly GIFT" . The gift is Jesus Christ Himself.
The believer did not EARN Him by works in the first place. He tasted the gift and there is more to BE tasted in the future. On the way to tasting more of the gift can one be disciplined, punished, corrected during the "age to come" ? Yes, he can be punished without losing the GIFT. It is not the LOAN for temporary enjoyment. It is the GIFT of eternal life in Christ.
The problem is that the natural mind of man always thinks he has to do something good before he can receive the GIFT of eternal salvation. "Salvation just cannot be free" - he thinks. "I must do something."
With Rajk999ism the word "repentance" is used but the thinking is wrong. For Rajk999ism "repentance" means a man is unwilling to be an unconditional beneficiary of the gift of God. Although Rajk999 realizes that he cannot do EVERYTHING, he thinks that he must at least do something. He does not want to stand in the position of receiving the eternal life in an unconditional way. "Repentance" in his mind means "But I just CANNOT be the recipient of the gift of eternal life. I have to do at least something to earn this."
But repentance is mentioned much in the Bible. There are two books in the New Testament that tell us how a person is justified before God. They are Romans and Galatians. For certain the book of Romans does mention repentance. But it does not make repentance a condition of receiving the salvation of eternal life.
Cont. below
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Why do Robbie and Rajk999 emphasize repentance. Their usage of "repentance" is their own natural concept that man must do works of law to earn eternal life. Salvation is the gift of God. But because they cannot let go of the poison of thinking they can justify themselves for the receiving of salvation they code this refusal in the word "repentance."
Some people cannot believe that God would bear man's burden. To us salvation seems free. Actually it is paid for by Christ. He is God incarnate Who bore the burden for us to secure eternal life on our behalf.
Repentance is in the Bible. But for some people "repentance" means that they cannot take the lowest rung on the ladder. The repentance that Rajk999 talks about in Hebrews six is a twisted refusal to humble oneself to be an unconditional recipient of the "gift". He has to do something. He cannot simply lower himself to the lowest step to receive freely the gift of eternal life.
The repentance in Hebrews 6 is not the repentance in the mind of those who cannot believe eternal life is a free gift.
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The question as I see it is not whether repentance is important to the normal Christian life or not. Definitely it is important.
The issue is that repentance is not mentioned by John as a condition to receive Christ as eternal life. From the beginning to the end of the Gospel of John it is BELIEVING into Christ that brings us eternal life. It is not believing PLUS repentance.
Man apart from revelation is hardly ready to be a unconditional recipient of God's gift of eternal life. The repentance in the Bible and the repentance used by Rajk999ism are different.
The repentance that Rajk999 stresses using Hebrews is self improvement to earn eternal life. It is the mistaken concept that man has to lift himself up to a certain level of worthiness before he can receive the gift of eternal life. He looks to the future and thinks that if he improves himself he will earn eternal life. It is really not a repentance towards the past but a dealing with the present and the future.
Ie. "Formerly I was sinful, fallen, degraded, and weak. But I want to be saved. I want to have eternal life. So I have to improve myself from today on and maky myself look better."
The word repentance is used. But we have to be careful what Rajk999 has in mind. Fallen man's mind is filled with the concept of working for God to earn salvation. It is good to look for the gift of life to manifest itself in good works. This will be rewarded in the kingdom of the "age to come".
But to expect that good works will earn BIRTH is not in the New Testament. The BIRTH of the new life is a gift received by believing. It is not received by believing PLUS self improvement.
Originally posted by sonshipFirst of all salvation cannot be earned, it is described as a free gift, however, clearly there are certain requirements that God expects from a Christian, it is not enough simply to give lip service and say that you believe, as Jesus points out. Christians are a 'Holy', nation, sanctified for a purpose, that being to declare abroad Gods excellencies! It is also clear that it is possible for a Christian to lose his or her Christian identity and to be so self willed so as to be unable to attain to repentance, making a mockery of the idea , once saved, always saved.
Why do Robbie and Rajk999 emphasize repentance. Their usage of "repentance" is their own natural concept that man must do works of law to earn eternal life. Salvation is the gift of God. But because they cannot let go of the poison of thinking they can justify themselves for the receiving of salvation they code this refusal in the word "repentance."
So ...[text shortened]... ews 6 is not the repentance in the mind of those who cannot believe eternal life is a free gift.
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Originally posted by sonshipIf I may expand on this, we come to the Lord as we are. We don't have to "clean ourselves up first", that comes later.
The question as I see it is not whether repentance is important to the normal Christian life or not. Definitely it is important.
The issue is that repentance is not mentioned by [b]John as a condition to receive Christ as eternal life. From the beginning to the end of the Gospel of John it is BELIEVING into Christ that brings us eternal life. ...[text shortened]... new life is a gift received by believing. It is not received by believing PLUS self improvement.[/b]
Another false teaching is that we need to change in order to maintain this salvation or relationship.
The truth is that as we consider the Lord, as we look steadfastly on Him, as we study and let his word speak to us our desires change and old habits and interests fall away.
Ps 37:4
4 Delight yourself in the Lord
and he will give you the desires of your heart.
NIV
Originally posted by checkbaiterI dont know if i can take any more of this, its so absolutely diagrammatically opposed to what is written in scripture, not only is a Christian under duress to change his personality, it is described in scripture as being a complete metamorphosis so that what went before is unrecognisable.
If I may expand on this, we come to the Lord as we are. We don't have to "clean ourselves up first", that comes later.
Another false teaching is that we need to change in order to maintain this salvation or relationship.
The truth is that as we consider the Lord, as we look steadfastly on Him, as we study and let his word speak to us our desires change ...[text shortened]...
Ps 37:4
4 Delight yourself in the Lord
and he will give you the desires of your heart.
NIV
(1 Corinthians 6:9-11) What! Do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom. And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean, but you have been sanctified, but you have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieLet's see if I have this right....By yours and Raj estimation all these followers of Christ and their entire congregations are all headed for ...well, let's say eternal damnation...
I dont know if i can take any more of this, its so absolutely diagrammatically opposed to what is written in scripture, not only is a Christian under duress to change his personality, it is described in scripture as being a complete metamorphosis so that what went before is unrecognisable.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-11) What! Do you not know that unrighte ...[text shortened]... ave been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.
Billy Graham, Martin Luther, Joyce Meyer, Max Lucado, C.H. Spurgeon, Dr David Jeremiah, John MacArthur, Greg Laurie, Andy Stanley, T.D. Jakes, Andrew Wommack, Charles Swindoll, John MacArthur, John R.W. Stott, Charles Stanley, Lloyd John Ogilvie, Smith Wigglesworth , Billy Sunday, D.L. Moody...just to name a few..
I am pretty sure they all preached salvation is permanent..
But of course, they are all wrong, and only the JW's are right...
Originally posted by robbie carrobieOnce saved, always saved."
First of all salvation cannot be earned, it is described as a free gift, however, clearly there are certain requirements that God expects from a Christian, it is not enough simply to give lip service and say that you believe, as Jesus points out. Christians are a 'Holy', nation, sanctified for a purpose, that being to declare abroad Gods excellencie ...[text shortened]... s to be unable to attain to repentance, making a mockery of the idea , once saved, always saved.
This is not a verse in the Holy Bible. Not all Christian denominations teach this idea. I have only heard this teaching coming from the Southern Baptist denomination. There may be others, but I am not aware of it. Here is what one website says about it.
http://www.preparingforeternity.com/oncesave.htm
The Instructor
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Originally posted by RJHindsI counter with this...
[b]Once saved, always saved."
This is not a verse in the Holy Bible. Not all Christian denominations teach this idea. I have only heard this teaching coming from the Southern Baptist denomination. There may be others, but I am not aware of it. Here is what one website says about it.
http://www.preparingforeternity.com/oncesave.htm
The Instructor[/b]
http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/security_believer.html
http://www.hilltopbaptistnewport.net/IsSalvationEternal.html