Refuting Rajk999ism

The mind is a part of our spirit and it would be an essential part if only our spirit lives eternally seperate from our body. All these quotes you are throwing at me are only proving my point. Did you go over logical reasoning in math class? Not trying to say you are dumb but you seem to have trouble equating hypotheses and conclusions.

If you must know, yes, I took Discrete Math. And there we learned about logical truth tables.

As a professional computer programmer (now retired) had to design decision gates and employ these skills of setting up truth tables.

You know what else you need ? You need spiritual experience. You need the experience of realizing that when you called upon the Lord Jesus as Lord a new dimension opened up in your being that you didn't realize was there.

Said another way - when I was born again it was like the world of black and white suddenly took on color.

I was functioning in a two dimensional world, so to speak, and suddenly God added another real dimension.

So soul and spirit is not just my theology. It is the experience of me and of many many other Christians.

It takes not only smarts. It takes some experience. And once gaining some experience you open the Bible again and gradually more and more you say "NOW, NOW I see what it is talking about there."


This is a great adventure. That is meeting the Lord Jesus and having some experiences with the Lord Jesus. And THEN gradually the pages of the Bible begin to lighten up. And you say "Now I understand what these words mean."

I discovered that besides my mind I had a human spirit. Such confirmation leads to confidence that we are on the right track to trust the Lord Jesus and take the words of Scripture seriously.

So seriously in fact that I can say, Don't snooze when the Bible says that you will not be non-existent the day you die. If you brush it off and figure Freud knows more about this, you are going to be disappointed.

Better take Jesus seriously. Let me put it to you this way. Jesus Christ DIED and CAME BACK. He rose from the dead. Don't you think He speaks with authority on the subject ?

No, I have not expired yet. I bet as with so many other things He said that have come out to be TRUE in my experience, His teaching on death and resurrection will also be true.

Originally posted by MISTER CHESS
This equates the spirit with the mind, the spirit is that part of us which can't be observed physically, our disposition, our character and our mind.

You didn't quote any of the other anologies because you are grasping at straws. The analogy means that you can't take the core out of the apple and it still be the apple, you can't take the spirit out ...[text shortened]... Not trying to say you are dumb but you seem to have trouble equating hypotheses and conclusions.

Let me see if I can help. Here are a couple scriptures to concentrate on:

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

(1 Thessalonians 5:23 NKJV)

For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

(Hebrews 4:12 NKJV)

From these we see that there is a difference between the body, soul, and spirit. These are the main divisions of human beings. We see here that our thoughts and intents come from our heart, which theologians equate to the mind or soul.

Theologians theorize that human beings consist of a physical body and soul working together that developes our character that is passed on to our spiritual body and survives the death of the physical body. The mind or soul is believed to be that innermost part of man (heart) that originates our thoughts and uses the brain functions to control some of the physical body and to experience the world around us.

Does that help any?

The Instructor

Let me see if I can help. Here are a couple scriptures to concentrate on:

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

(1 Thessalonians 5:23 NKJV)

For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Thanks for some support RJHinds,

The Hebrews 4:12 in the New King James Version is okay.

In First Thessalonians 5:23 I think the truer translation there should include the conjunction between spirit soul body so that it reads spirit AND soul AND body.

Now because SOME translators want to not get involved in dispute they may leave it "spirit, soul, and body". That way people can possibly understand spirit and soul to be roughly the same thing.

I prefer a more faithful rendering "spirit AND soul AND body"

I like the NJKV. I like it better than NIV. But I don't want the translators to be "helpful" and render as they THINK it would sound better in English with unenlightened natural concepts.

1901 American Standard is "wooden" meaning it sacrifices good sounding English for the sake of faithfulness to the original language expression.

There also you have "And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."


The heart, in the Bible is three parts of the soul and one part of the spirit.

The heart is the mind, emotion, will (which are parts of the soul) plus ONE part of the spirit - the conscience.

So in the Bible the HEART is the mind, emotion, will, and conscience of man.

Originally posted by sonship
[quote] Let me see if I can help. Here are a couple scriptures to concentrate on:

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

(1 Thessalonians 5:23 NKJV)

For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged swo ...[text shortened]... the conscience.

So in the Bible the HEART is the mind, emotion, will, and conscience of man.

You guys are "Still" at it?😴

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Raj, I think your problem is you do not understand the love of God, nor the Grace of God. You also do not understand how vast and how incredible the sacrifice Jesus made was.
Heb 10:11-14

11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this Man, after He had offered one ...[text shortened]...
NKJV
These verses have a tone of permanence wouldn't you say?...I pray you understand this...

Checkbaiter, Yes I understand what God's love is about and Gods grace.

The same way the Bible says both Faith and works are important and some people only accept the faith side, the bible refers to the other side of God - the destruction and the damnation side.

Dont be fooled, it is not all about love and grace.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Checkbaiter, Yes I understand what God's love is about and Gods grace.

The same way the Bible says both Faith and works are important and some people only accept the faith side, the bible refers to the other side of God - the destruction and the damnation side.

Dont be fooled, it is not all about love and grace.

Of course there is a damnation side, just not for those who are born again.

It is like playing with a daisy. Remember... he loves me, he loves me not?

Imagine living every day not knowing for sure if tomorrow, you might not be saved. Today God loves me but tomorrow? Who knows?

My earthly father did a better job than that! I was his son no matter what I did! Do you suppose God is not as loving a father as my earthly father?

No, brother...God is much more loving than that. He knows our frame, he knows our weakness and he knows our enemy.

If he loved us when we were still enemies, how much more does he love us after we receive his son?
This teaching about losing your salvation is false and does not reflect a loving Father.

The only thing a rebellious son loses is his rewards at the Bema seat. He also lives a terrible life because he invites Satan into his life to disrupt his life now in the present.

Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."
MATTHEW 24:13
Here, Jesus teaches that the believer must persevere to receive complete salvation. Salvation is a gift that cannot be earned or maintained by our own works. It has to be received by faith. However, there is effort on our part to maintain that faith. This is where holiness comes in.
Holiness will not produce relationship with God, nor will a lack of holiness make God turn away from us. He deals with us according to our faith in Jesus, not our performance. Holiness will keep Satan from stealing our faith, while a lack of holiness is an open invitation for the devil to do his worst. A person who wants to endure to the end cannot live a lifestyle that permits Satan free access to him.
Although God is not imputing our sins unto us, we cannot afford the luxury of sin because it allows Satan to have access to us. When a Christian does sin, and allows the devil an opportunity to produce death in his life, the way to stop this is to confess the sin. God is faithful and just to take the forgiveness that is already present in our born-again spirit and release it in our flesh, thereby removing Satan and his strongholds.
Holiness is a fruit and not a root of salvation. That is to say that holiness is a by-product of relationship with God; it does not produce relationship with God. It is the nature of a Christian to walk in the light, not in the dark. When we are rightly informed of who we are and what we have in Christ, then holiness will naturally flow out of us because it is our nature

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."
MATTHEW 24:13
Here, Jesus teaches that the believer must persevere to receive complete salvation. Salvation is a gift that cannot be earned or maintained by our own works. It has to be received by faith. However, there is effort on our part to maintain that faith. This is w ...[text shortened]... and what we have in Christ, then holiness will naturally flow out of us because it is our nature

not all sins are forgiven and no everyone saying Lord Lord will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, jaywillism has been refuted!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
not all sins are forgiven ...

So Calvary is not really a complete, finished work of redemption?

erased.

Rajk999,

The same way the Bible says both Faith and works are important and some people only accept the faith side, the bible refers to the other side of God - the destruction and the damnation side.

So your answer to all problems of Christians not regarding works as important is to immediately threaten them with damnation.

"Oh, you don't think works are important? You are going to lose your eternal salvation. You are going to be lost to damnation."

This is Rakj999ism - one remedy for all Christian problems - damnation of Christians.

First, speaking for myself, I never wrote here that works stemming from the indwelling Christ, are of no importance. On the contrary. Brother Paul speaks of good works which God prepared beforehand that we would walk in them in Ephesians 2:8-10)

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; (v.8)

Not of works that no one should boast. (v.9)

For we are His masterpiece, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand in order that we would walk in them." (v.10)

I like this passage because it is so clear.

1.) We believers in Jesus were " SAVED [past tense] through FAITH." Sorry Rajk999ism.

"For by grace you HAVE BEEN SAVED [past tense] through faith ..."

2.) This having BEEN saved was not of ourselves but was a GIFT of God.

" ... and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; NOT of works that no one should boast."

Our being SAVED was a GIFT and not of our works that we may have ANYTHING to boast about. Sorry for Rajk999ism.

3.) We are God's masterpiece, God's POEMA, God's ingenious work of art. And why ? Because we were created in Christ Jesus for "good works".

It says we were "created in Christ Jesus" for "good works". It did not say we were SAVED because of good works Rajk999. It said we are created in Christ Jesus for good works.

I don't know if Rajk999 can detect the difference.

It did not say we were just created for good works.
It said we are created "in Christ Jesus" for good works.
First you have to be created in Christ Jesus by being SAVED.
Once you have been created in Christ Jesus by being saved by the GIFT of God then we must see our purpose includes "good works" .


Once again because those influenced by Rajk999ism may have forgotten already.

FIRST - the believer is created in Christ Jesus by being saved. This salvation is not of works, not of ourselves. It is the gift of God. We reached out in faith and were saved by His grace. We were created in Christ Jesus.

AFTERWARDS - We were created in Christ Jesus as God's MASTERPIECE, His POEMA [Greek], like a great composer's 9th symphony, like a master architect's building showing forth all his wisdom - We were created in Christ Jesus [b]"for good works.

These good works were prepared beforehand in order that we would walk in them.

So walking in good works is indeed important. And the consequences for failing to walk in them can be substantial. But the failure to walk in these prepared good works is NOT the revoking by God of our eternal salvation.

What is Rajk999ism ? It is Arminian teaching. To not walk in good works is to have God remove the GIFT. You become unsaved again. You lose eternal redemption, which was a gift to begin with. The gift is taken away because you did not walk in good works. This is Rajk999's misunderstanding of the New Testament.

Dont be fooled, it is not all about love and grace.

Thank you. But don't YOU be fooled that we were SAVED by good works and that we can be UNSAVED again for not having good works.

It is time for you to grow up in your understanding of the New Testament.

Robbie must be sympathetic to Rajk999's teaching.

not all sins are forgiven and no everyone saying Lord Lord will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, jaywillism has been refuted!

I am not yet going to write a long post on this. Let's start small, manageable, something people will be willing to read.


Question - HOW do we know that these two matters are exactly synonomous ?

1.) Entering into the kingdom of the heavens.

2.) Being eternally saved.

The assumption that robbie makes from the book of Matthew is that if you do not enter into the kingdom of the heavens then you are eternally lost.

That is the basis of his objection to the assurance of salvation. You are reading into the phrase - "enter into the kingdom of the heavens" used in Matthew your own thought of "be eternally redeemed, eternally saved."

Your misunderstanding is making the scope of the two phrases exactly the same. The scope of one is larger and contains the scope of the other.

When I am in California I am in the US. But I can be in the US and not be in California.

I can be eternally saved but fail to enter into the kingdom of the heavens.

Is entering into the kingdom of the heavens important. Yes indeed. The whole book of Matthew is about the kingdom of the heavens. But the scope of being eternally redeemed is larger than the scope of the important matter of entering into the kingdom of the heavens.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
not all sins are forgiven and no everyone saying Lord Lord will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, jaywillism has been refuted!

You are like Job's miserable comforters. You are misusing the word of God by picking and choosing what suits you. You have not refuted the clear verses posted by Sonship nor myself. Yet, the verses you state have been explained in context.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
You are like Job's miserable comforters. You are misusing the word of God by picking and choosing what suits you. You have not refuted the clear verses posted by Sonship nor myself. Yet, the verses you state have been explained in context.

dear, its a wretched Christian that does not know the word of God, sins against the Holy spirit are not forgiven.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
dear, its a wretched Christian that does not know the word of God, sins against the Holy spirit are not forgiven.

Says it here plainly but they chose to twist it .. it is IMPOSSIBLE TO RENEW THEM TO REPENTANCE ..

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
(Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV)