1. Joined
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    18 Dec '12 10:36
    in the last few hundred years the human life span has (in the developed world) on average doubled. the reason obviously is the advances in science.

    im wondering how this effects christians. is god it okay with god for humans trying to increase the length of life. isnt it like putting off being with god? at what point will it not be okay. in the next few hundred years it is entirely possible that the aging process will be halted effectively making humans immortal. is this too far for god or christians, where do you draw the line? for a christian how long is long enough?
  2. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
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    18 Dec '12 10:581 edit
    Originally posted by stellspalfie

    in the last few hundred years the human life span has (in the developed world) on average doubled. the reason obviously is the advances in science.

    im wondering how this effects christians. is god it okay with god for humans trying to increase the length of life. isnt it like putting off being with god? at what point will it not be okay. in the nex ...[text shortened]... far for god or christians, where do you draw the line? for a christian how long is long enough?
    Human beings routinely lived hundreds of years in the beginning. As the genetically transmitted 'sin nature' caused an already depraved species strain to continually weaken, life expectancy became shorter. Seventy or a hundred years isn't much by comparison. Nothing takes God's Omniscience by surprise. Now or ever.
    -
  3. Joined
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    18 Dec '12 11:10
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Human beings routinely lived hundreds of years in the beginning. As the genetically transmitted 'sin nature' caused an already depraved species strain to continually weaken, life expectancy became shorter. Seventy or a hundred years isn't much by comparison. Nothing takes God's Omniscience by surprise. Now or ever.
    -
    so if science creates an immortality pill, will you take it?
  4. Joined
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    18 Dec '12 11:32
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Human beings routinely lived hundreds of years in the beginning. As the genetically transmitted 'sin nature' caused an already depraved species strain to continually weaken, life expectancy became shorter. Seventy or a hundred years isn't much by comparison. Nothing takes God's Omniscience by surprise. Now or ever.
    -
    So how do you explain the rise in life expectancy in the west compared to say, 500 years ago, are we becoming less depraved?
  5. Joined
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    18 Dec '12 11:53
    Originally posted by kevcvs57
    So how do you explain the rise in life expectancy in the west compared to say, 500 years ago, are we becoming less depraved?
    good point. unless the power of science is defeating the power of sin.
  6. Joined
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    18 Dec '12 17:57
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    so if science creates an immortality pill, will you take it?
    Doubt they would create a thing they don't believe in. 😉
  7. Joined
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    18 Dec '12 18:461 edit
    Originally posted by kd2acz
    Doubt they would create a thing they don't believe in. 😉
    Biological immortality (you wont die of old age or disease but might still get murdered or
    run over by a bus) is almost certainly both possible and attainable in my lifetime.

    The bet in the relevant field of biology/medicine is not whether the first person to live to
    1000 years old has been born, but how old they are. Some people think that that person
    might even be in their fifties or sixties... although I think they are probably a tad over optimistic.



    There was an estimate done based on current US death rates that calculated an average life
    expectancy of 1000 years if all deaths from disease and old age were eradicated.

    However it should be noted that of those who manage to live to 1000 yrs old, achieving 2000+
    is reasonably probable because most of those left are the cautious ones who didn't take excessive
    risks and get themselves killed.



    True 'live for ever' immortality, is almost certainly impossible (even if the end of the visible universe can
    be circumvented) and probably undesirable.

    However there are trillions and trillions of years to go before the heat death of the universe becomes
    an issue, and anything even vaguely resembling a human would almost certainly get bored and terminate
    their existence before then.


    However subjective existences of tens of thousands to millions of years are not just possible but probable
    for those willing to use the relevant technology.

    Assuming we don't have a major disaster/war/Outside Context Problem in the mean time.




    We don't believe in magical non-existent souls and afterlives. Or living for an infinite amount of time.

    However there is a world of difference between infinity and the time remaining till the heat death of the
    universe... An infinite difference in fact.
  8. Standard memberavalanchethecat
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    18 Dec '12 19:08
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Human beings routinely lived hundreds of years in the beginning.
    -
    Evidence for this fanciful notion please? Oh wait, you're taking this from the bible aren't you. Do you swallow the whole shebang a-critically then GB?
  9. Joined
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    18 Dec '12 22:15
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    ... [text shortened]...

    We don't believe in magical non-existent souls and afterlives. Or living for an infinite amount of time.

    However there is a world of difference between infinity and the time remaining till the heat death of the
    universe... An infinite difference in fact.
    Two questions for GF,

    1) Are you so sure there is no afterlife and that souls are non-existent? What do you offer as proof, if there is such a thing? Does the possibility exist or is it probable given today's technology, that the spiritual realm, afterlife, etc. has gone undetected and we have yet to achieve that ability? Do you suppose that you could be wrong?

    2) I think it was you talking about the capacity of the brain in another thread, how long do you suppose it would take for the brain to reach maximum capacity (capacity would be knowledge, experiences, etc. maybe more?) Once reached, then what? Maybe like you said, one would terminate their life.

    What are your thoughts?
  10. Joined
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    18 Dec '12 23:36
    Originally posted by kd2acz
    Two questions for GF,

    1) Are you so sure there is no afterlife and that souls are non-existent? What do you offer as proof, if there is such a thing? Does the possibility exist or is it probable given today's technology, that the spiritual realm, afterlife, etc. has gone undetected and we have yet to achieve that ability? Do you suppose that [b]you
    ...[text shortened]... ed, then what? Maybe like you said, one would terminate their life.

    What are your thoughts?[/b]
    I think your numbering system needs some looking at... points 1 and 2 are not what you might term singular questions... Anyhow...

    1) Are you so sure there is no afterlife and that souls are non-existent?
    What do you offer as proof, if there is such a thing?
    Does the possibility exist or is it probable given today's technology, that the spiritual realm, afterlife, etc. has gone undetected and we have yet to achieve that ability?
    Do you suppose that you could be wrong?


    Mostly dealt with in this thread http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=150325&page=5

    However...

    My confidence that there is no afterlife and souls don't exist is 1-Epsilon. Where Epsilon is a really really really really small number.

    See my other thread linked above for some evidence and rational for the above confidence.

    Yes the possibility exists that the "spiritual realm" has gone undetected. In much the same way that it's possible that Australia is
    upside-down in the middle of the Atlantic and that the world is in fact a flat disk supported on the back of four elephants who are in turn
    standing on a giant star turtle...

    However there is a difference between possibility and probability.

    It's possible that those things are true, it's not anything even remotely resembling probable.

    If you are comfortable accepting that Australia is in fact in the southern hemisphere at the meeting of the Arctic, Indian, and Pacific oceans.
    And that the world is in fact an irregular oblate spheroid... Then you should have no trouble in accepting that the "spiritual realm" doesn't
    exist either.

    It is, of course, always possible that I could be wrong... However it is not in this case likely (probable).

    2) I think it was you talking about the capacity of the brain in another thread,
    how long do you suppose it would take for the brain to reach maximum capacity (capacity would be knowledge, experiences, etc. maybe more?)
    Once reached, then what? Maybe like you said, one would terminate their life.


    I really don't know how much information any given brain could potentially hold, or how fast that brain accrues data.

    And I also don't know what would happen if/when a human brain became 'full', or even if that is actually possible.

    The brain also loses information, so there may be some stable maximum 'fullness' where the rate of information loss
    balances out the information gain... Sort of like "in one ear and out the other"... but on longer time-scales.

    What happens next will depend on the person, and the available technology.

    If possible I intend to upgrade to a better neural substrate long before I run out of memory capacity.
  11. Joined
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    19 Dec '12 19:27
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    I think your numbering system needs some looking at... points 1 and 2 are not what you might term singular questions... Anyhow...

    [quote]1) Are you so sure there is no afterlife and that souls are non-existent?
    What do you offer as proof, if there is such a thing?
    Does the possibility exist or is it probable given today's technology, that the sp ...[text shortened]... upgrade to a better neural substrate long before I run out of memory capacity.
    "It's possible that those things are true, it's not anything even remotely resembling probable. "

    I'd go a step further and say that we don't know something is possible until all the implications of its being possible are known and examined.
  12. Joined
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    20 Dec '12 00:39
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    in the last few hundred years the human life span has (in the developed world) on average doubled. the reason obviously is the advances in science.

    im wondering how this effects christians. is god it okay with god for humans trying to increase the length of life. isnt it like putting off being with god? at what point will it not be okay. in the next ...[text shortened]... far for god or christians, where do you draw the line? for a christian how long is long enough?
    Good question. But that is a problem that no human can fix, even science.

    Romans 5:12
    New King James Version (NKJV)

    12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned.

    So even if a person somehow did not sin it would still not help as the getting old and dying is something we have inherited from Adam.

    Also on the point of being immortal. The Bible speaks of this but in the descriptions of who is and is not immortal, it is only God Jehovah, his son Jesus who earned that honor as he was not immortal before he accended back to heaven and the chosen ones or 144,000 who also accend to heaven after their death.
    No one else including the angels will ever have immortality.
    The bible does speak of humans eventually having eternal life but that is only relative in the sense they could still be put to death if they at some time turned against God and do not want to serve him and even cause badness against others in the future.
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    20 Dec '12 08:431 edit
    Yes the possibility exists that the world is in fact a flat disk supported on the back of four elephants who are in turn
    standing on a giant star turtle...
    About one in a million I'd say. So a 90% chance it's true.
  14. Joined
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    20 Dec '12 08:56
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Good question. But that is a problem that no human can fix, even science.

    Romans 5:12
    New King James Version (NKJV)

    12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned.

    So even if a person somehow did not sin it would still not help as the getting old and dy ...[text shortened]... d against God and do not want to serve him and even cause badness against others in the future.
    science seems to be getting closer and closer to curing the aging process. as googlefudge has pointed out there is a good chance people living today will reap the benefits. you say god will stop us from becoming immortal, will he stop us from living 200 or 500 or 2000 or 10,000 years?
  15. Joined
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    20 Dec '12 14:48
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    science seems to be getting closer and closer to curing the aging process. as googlefudge has pointed out there is a good chance people living today will reap the benefits. you say god will stop us from becoming immortal, will he stop us from living 200 or 500 or 2000 or 10,000 years?
    According to the Bible, not my opinion, that limit that God has put on man's life is about a hundred years. Some live a few years longer but most do not even make it to 100.
    So I see nothing in the Bible that indicates man would ever live longer on our own until Jehovah actually changes this command.
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