1. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
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    13 Mar '14 07:52
    We desperately need to escape religions so the human race can finally grow up and take care of business on its own petards.

    This obsession with gods is out of hand. Every decision a theist makes is tainted with the obsession of some god or other.

    That is not the way to maturity. That is the way that keeps us infantile, forever in the middle of religious strife, wars and such.

    We need to grow up and cast off this obsession with man made gods. We made the gods not the other way round.

    Prove me wrong. Try it without quoting scripture, vedas, talmud, Qurans and such.
  2. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
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    13 Mar '14 08:10
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    We desperately need to escape religions so the human race can finally grow up and take care of business on its own petards.

    This obsession with gods is out of hand. Every decision a theist makes is tainted with the obsession of some god or other.

    That is not the way to maturity. That is the way that keeps us infantile, forever in the middle of religi ...[text shortened]... way round.

    Prove me wrong. Try it without quoting scripture, vedas, talmud, Qurans and such.
    sonhouse, I fully agree with the premise: all religions are manmade and destructive. Each is a counterfeit with different methods which amount to man by man's efforts trying to gain the approbation of some higher authority. In Christianity, the work has already been accomplished through Christ's Substitutionary Spiritual Death at Golgotha satisfying God the Father's Justice and Righteousness. As a result, God offers the Grace Gift of Salvation to all mankind by faith alone in Christ alone.
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    13 Mar '14 08:22
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    sonhouse, I fully agree with the premise: all religions are manmade and destructive.
    I stopped reading after your "all religions are manmade and destructive." Everything thereafter is false if your "all religions are manmade and destructive." is true. Nothing can be true and false at the same time.

    I agree with you - "all religions are manmade and destructive."
  4. Standard memberNick Bourbaki
    Son of FMF
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    13 Mar '14 08:51
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    I stopped reading after your "all religions are manmade and destructive." Everything thereafter is false if your "all religions are manmade and destructive." is true. Nothing can be true and false at the same time.

    I agree with you - "all religions are manmade and destructive."
    It's not unusual to come across Christians who claim that 'Christianity is not a religion' in order to give themselves license to take a swing at competing religions... for being 'mere' religions and 'counterfeit' etc. It's just a rhetorical trick.
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    13 Mar '14 09:00
    Originally posted by Nick Bourbaki
    It's not unusual to come across Christians who claim that 'Christianity is not a religion' in order to give themselves license to take a swing at competing religions... for being 'mere' religions and 'counterfeit' etc. It's just a rhetorical trick.
    Then, do you imply that Grampys opinion is that "he has not a religion, he has the Truth", and therefore he can be patronizing towards other religions because they are truly man-made religions, and not his own religion because that's the Truth?
  6. Standard memberNick Bourbaki
    Son of FMF
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    13 Mar '14 09:08
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Then, do you imply that Grampys opinion is that "he has not a religion, he has the Truth", and therefore he can be patronizing towards other religions because they are truly man-made religions, and not his own religion because that's the Truth?
    Like I said, it's just a partisan rhetorical trick.
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    13 Mar '14 09:235 edits
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    We desperately need to escape religions so the human race can finally grow up and take care of business on its own petards.

    This obsession with gods is out of hand. Every decision a theist makes is tainted with the obsession of some god or other.

    That is not the way to maturity. That is the way that keeps us infantile, forever in the middle of religi ...[text shortened]... way round.

    Prove me wrong. Try it without quoting scripture, vedas, talmud, Qurans and such.
    this contains more prejudice than the meanest medieval monk. Do you think your own rhetoric an apt advertisement for 'freeing ourselves', from religion when it is absolutely so utterly devoid of both reason and substance as to warrant nothing 'but absolute disdain', in the immortal words of Duchess64

    It is full of assumption, that religion is primarily responsible for war when in fact any informed and educated individual will tell you that in comparative terms religious wars are essentially insignificant in comparison to political or ethnic wars. It also fails to acknowledge that wars and atrocities have been perpetrated by the religious and non religious and going even further, the ability to obliterate mankind over and over is not due to religion but that fact that one in four scientists are engaged in weapons programs. A hard rain is gonna fall indeed!

    Indeed as soon as one fails to recognize that humans have a spirituality one is liable to utter the type of caustic diatribe masquerading under the guise of progress that we see above. Blind and ignorant as a dark age monk you will utter forth empty speeches blabbering and drooling against an easy target for your prejudices. Progress indeed.
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    13 Mar '14 09:33
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    this contains more prejudice than the meanest medieval monk. Do you think your own rhetoric an apt advertisement for 'freeing ourselves', from religion when it is absolutely so utterly devoid of both reason and substance as to warrant nothing 'but absolute disdain', in the immortal words of Duchess64

    It is full of assumption, that religion is pri ...[text shortened]... l utter forth empty speeches blabbering and drooling against an easy target for your prejudices.
    There are so many wars described in the old testament, so many genocides, so much violence, so it is one of the pillars of the christian religion. "We are better than you, we have God on our side, we have the right, no, the obligation to destroy you!"

    So, yes, religion is responsible for too many wars, even in our times.
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    13 Mar '14 09:352 edits
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    There are so many wars described in the old testament, so many genocides, so much violence, so it is one of the pillars of the christian religion. "We are better than you, we have God on our side, we have the right, no, the obligation to destroy you!"

    So, yes, religion is responsible for too many wars, even in our times.
    it palls into insignificance in comparison to political and ethnic atrocities and its not one of the pillars of the Christian religion at all, infact when one considers Jesus teaching and example there is no room for warfare of any description.

    http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/atrox.htm
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    13 Mar '14 09:401 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    it palls into insignificance in comparison to political and ethnic atrocities and its not one of the pillars of the Christian religion at all, infact when one considers Jesus teaching and example there is no room for warfare of any description.

    http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/atrox.htm
    Deuteronomy chapter 20 says:

    When you go to war against your enemies and see horses and chariots and an army greater than yours, do not be afraid of them, because the Lord your God, who brought you up out of Egypt, will be with you. 2 When you are about to go into battle, the priest shall come forward and address the army. 3 He shall say: “Hear, Israel: Today you are going into battle against your enemies. Do not be fainthearted or afraid; do not panic or be terrified by them. 4 For the Lord your God is the one who goes with you to fight for you against your enemies to give you victory.”
    ...and it goes on and on.

    Can we burn the old testament...?
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    13 Mar '14 09:442 edits
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Deuteronomy chapter 20 says:

    When you go to war against your enemies and see horses and chariots and an army greater than yours, do not be afraid of them, because the Lord your God, who brought you up out of Egypt, will be with you. 2 When you are about to go into battle, the priest shall come forward and address the army. 3 He shall say: “Hear, Israel ...[text shortened]... ur enemies to give you victory.”
    ...and it goes on and on.

    Can we burn the old testament...?
    we are Christians we are not Jews, the Mosaic Law and its ordinances are no longer binding upon Christians, infact of you want to understand the Christian perspective its rather strange that you are looking at Jewish history. Jesus teaching upon the matter can be found in the Greek portion of Scripture and I noticed that you failed to comment upon the magnitude of atrocities, in fact why don't you simply admit that political wars have killed more people than religious wars put together? and indeed the anti religious, Mao, Stalin, Khmer Rouge have killed with more zeal than the conquistadors of Spain? Is it because like the poster above religion is an easy target for your prejudices?
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    13 Mar '14 09:49
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    we are Christians we are not Jews, the Mosaic Law and its ordinances are no longer binding upon Christians, infact of you want to understand the Christian perspective its rather strange that you are looking at Jewish history. Jesus teaching upon the matter can be found in the Greek portion of Scripture and I noticed that you failed to comment upon t ...[text shortened]... t you simply admit that political wars have killed more people than religious wars put together?
    So we can burn the old testament along with genesis, commandments, Job, and Moses and Abraham and all. Because it is not the christian bible. Do we agree on that?

    Or do we pick good parts and say "This is christian part" and we pick the bad parts and say "This is the jewish part and even if they are the god chosen people, their part of the bible is bad."

    Make a stand! Should we burn the old testament in its entirety, or do we pick some parts and call them christian good parts?
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    13 Mar '14 09:541 edit
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    So we can burn the old testament along with genesis, commandments, Job, and Moses and Abraham and all. Because it is not the christian bible. Do we agree on that?

    Or do we pick good parts and say "This is christian part" and we pick the bad parts and say "This is the jewish part and even if they are the god chosen people, their part of the bible is bad ...[text shortened]... the old testament in its entirety, or do we pick some parts and call them christian good parts?
    you can do what you like the fact is Jesus example and teachings are found tin the Greek portion of the Bible, if you want to understand the Christian perspective to war, I suggest you go there. Also the fact of the matter is political wars have killed more people than religious wars put together why are you not advocating getting rid of politics, its seems rather strange, like straining out the gnat and gulping down many camels. Also the anti religious are responsible for millions of deaths, why don't we get rid of them so that we can make progress.
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    13 Mar '14 09:591 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    you can do what you like the fact is Jesus example and teachings are found tin the Greek portion of the Bible, if you want to understand the Christian perspective to war, I suggest you go there. Also the fact of the matter is political wars have killed more people than religious wars put together why are you not advocating getting rid of politics, i ...[text shortened]... e responsible for millions of deaths, why don't we get rid of them so that we can make progress.
    So you think we can burn the old testament then...?

    So we can get rid of the lies about the christian god, such as I Samuel 15:2-3
    "Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."
    God, the war loving god, the bloodthristy god, the jewish god.
  15. Standard memberKellyJay
    Walk your Faith
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    13 Mar '14 10:14
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    We desperately need to escape religions so the human race can finally grow up and take care of business on its own petards.

    This obsession with gods is out of hand. Every decision a theist makes is tainted with the obsession of some god or other.

    That is not the way to maturity. That is the way that keeps us infantile, forever in the middle of religi ...[text shortened]... way round.

    Prove me wrong. Try it without quoting scripture, vedas, talmud, Qurans and such.
    I'm sure you believe all of that. I believe the trouble with the human race
    is the human race. We use whatever we can to get over on one another,
    we justify hate. The trouble you have is that there have been people that
    also didn't "believe" in God or gods that also murdered scores of people.

    It is human nature, religion can used as a weapon for hate and a reason
    to heal.
    Kelly
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