09 Feb 16
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeThe way I see it, we are both human, and therefore have more in common than not.
Am risking a plethora of thumbs down, but you both bring a lot to these forums and i enjoy reading your posts. Despite your frequent disagreements, i think you share similar character traits (Sharp, almost brutal, sense of humour, say things as you see them; no sugar-coating).
But I see your point too.
09 Feb 16
Originally posted by FMFStill, we're 6 pages in now, and almost no progress on his OP.
If I had experienced any depression - or anything that was depressing - I would have mentioned it in my post at the top of page two. Perhaps you are asking me because you have not taken a moment to digest what I have been saying.
Rather than confusion, I experienced the onset of a new clarity. As for "hope in God's promise of eternal life", I'm not sure what ...[text shortened]... y have any regrets.
And there was no quandary (and I want Ghost of a Duke to know that). 馃槈
I'd like to hear from believers (since they are who this thread was aimed at) what is their answer on the OP.
09 Feb 16
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeI thank you for the compliment and acknowledgement of my achievements!
Am risking a plethora of thumbs down, but you both bring a lot to these forums and i enjoy reading your posts. Despite your frequent disagreements, i think you share similar character traits (Sharp, almost brutal, sense of humour, say things as you see them; no sugar-coating).
馃槈
I'm sure josephw will approve.
Originally posted by wolfgang59I thought I might address this as its a theological issue. Christians are not righteous, they have righteousness attributed or credited to them on the basis of Christs propitiatory sacrifice.
It's funny that you think you have "righteousness". 馃槙
The Hebrew verb tsa·dheq使 (related to tse使dheq, meaning “righteousness) at times is rendered “declare righteous” and “pronounce righteous.” (Ex 23:7; De 25:1) This Biblical expression is also rendered as “justify,” and the noun forms are translated “justification.” The original words (di·kai·o使o [verb], di·kai使o·ma and di·kai使o·sis [nouns]) in the Christian Greek Scriptures, where the fullest explanation of the matter is found, basically carry the idea of absolving or clearing of any charge, holding as guiltless, and hence acquitting, or pronouncing and treating as righteous.—See W. Bauer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (revised by F. W. Gingrich and F. Danker), 1979, pp. 197, 198; also A Greek-English Lexicon, by H. Liddell and R. Scott (revised by H. Jones), Oxford, 1968, p. 429.
Thus the apostle Paul speaks of God as being “proved righteous [form of di·kai·o使o]” in His words and winning when being judged by detractors. (Ro 3:4) Jesus said that “wisdom is proved righteous by its works” and that, when rendering an account on Judgment Day, men would be “declared righteous [form of di·kai·o使o]” or condemned by their words. (Mt 11:19; 12:36, 37) Jesus said that the humble tax collector who prayed repentantly in the temple “went down to his home proved more righteous” than the boastful Pharisee praying at the same time. (Lu 18:9-14; 16:15) The apostle Paul states that the person who dies is “acquitted [form of di·kai·o使o] from his sin,” having paid the penalty of death.—Ro 6:7, 23.
However, in addition to such usages, these Greek words are used in a special sense as referring to an act of God whereby one is accounted guiltless (Ac 13:38, 39; Ro 8:33) and also to God’s act in declaring a person perfect in integrity and judged worthy of the right to life, as will be seen.
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200001142#h=4
09 Feb 16
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIt's funny that you'd think you have "righteousness" somehow attributed to you.
I thought I might address this as its a theological issue. Christians are not righteous, they have righteousness attributed or credited to them on the basis of Christs propitiatory sacrifice.
The Hebrew verb tsa·dheq使 (related to tse使dheq, meaning “righteousness) at times is rendered “declare righteous” and “pronounce righteous.” (Ex 23:7; De 25: ...[text shortened]... rthy of the right to life, as will be seen.
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200001142#h=4
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou have no doubt then that you have had "righteousness" attributed to you? Just to be clear.
Not if you understand the meaning of Christs propitiatory sacrifice its not.
Is this "righteousness" attributed to all Christians who understand the meaning of, and believe in, "Christs propitiatory sacrifice"?
Originally posted by FMFThe act of having righteousness attributed to one is based on a principle, the principle being that Christ sacrifice atones for sin, you would know that if you understood the propitiatory sacrifice of Jesus Christ and what meaning it has for those who accept and understand it. How many years were you allegedly a Christian? How this could possibly have escaped your grasp i have no idea.
You have no doubt then that you have had "righteousness" attributed to you? Just to be clear.
Is this "righteousness" attributed to [b]all Christians who understand the meaning of, and believe in, "Christs propitiatory sacrifice"?[/b]
Yes righteousness should be attributed to all who understand and believe in Christ propitiatory sacrifice.
Now you will tell us what you find , 'funny' about having righteousness attributed to one. Thats how you described it, wasn't it, 'funny'.
09 Feb 16
Originally posted by robbie carrobieAnd this "righteousness" that you say has been attributed to you is something you can simply declare ~ unilaterally ~ about yourself, is that right? No other human has said that you have had this "righteousness" attributed to you ~ you have simply made the claim on your own and in accordance with your own personal understanding of the Bible, have I got this right?
The act of having righteousness attributed to one is based on a principle, you would know that if you understood the propitiatory sacrifice of Jesus Christ and what meaning it has for those who understand it. Yes righteousness should be attributed to all who understand and believe in Christ propitiatory sacrifice.
Originally posted by FMFyou were telling us what you find , 'funny' about it. That show you described it, 'funny'.
And this "righteousness" that you say has been attributed to you is something you can simply declare ~ unilaterally ~ about yourself, is that right? No other human has said that you have had this "righteousness" attributed to you ~ you have simply made the claim on your own and in accordance with your own personal understanding of the Bible, have I got this right?
I really have no idea what you are talking about. The text describes the process of declaration as it understood on a Biblical context. I see no reference to any self proclamation and in fact I don't see how its logically possible to extricate a self deceleration of righteousness from the text. Perhaps you will explain how you managed to do so.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieBecause some might be forgiven ~ including me ~ for finding you daft and unpleasant in the way you behave - so it's funny to find you - on the very same message boards claiming that you have had "righteousness attributed" to you by your God figure.
Now you will tell us what you find , 'funny' about having righteousness attributed to one. Thats how you described it, wasn't it, 'funny'.
If it were to be true, do you believe people should seek to emulate you? It all seems kind of funny. The smutty "comedy", the streams of abuse, the insincere apologies, the facetiousness about serious subjects, and then - all of a sudden - when talking to more or less the same audience, you declare yourself to have had ""righteousness attributed" to you by a supernatural being.
"Funny" to me in that way.
09 Feb 16
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIf you haven't declared yourself to have "righteousness", who has?
Declare i really have no idea what you are talking about. the text describes the process of declaration as it understood on a Biblical context, i see no reference to any self proclamation and in fact i don't see how its logically possible to extricate a self deceleration from the text, perhaps you will explain how you managed to do so.
Originally posted by FMFOh i see, then clearly despite being an alleged Christian for how many years, 20? you have no grasp or any understanding at all what the propitiatory sacrifice of Jesus Christ means to Christians and how on its basis Christians can be declared righteous before God. That is absolutely astonishing. I don't think I have ever met someone so absolutely devoid of understanding about Christian principles. Are you sure it wasn't more like twenty minutes you were a Christian?
Because some might be forgiven ~ including me ~ for finding you daft and unpleasant in the way you behave - so it's funny to find you - on the very same message boards claiming that you have had "righteousness attributed" by your God figure. If it were to be true, do you believe people should seek to emulate you? It all seems kind of funny. The smutty "comedy", ...[text shortened]... have had ""righteousness attributed" to you by a supernatural being. "Funny" to me in that way.