1. Standard membersonship
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    30 Dec '17 13:291 edit
    "Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, then I will come int to him and dine with him and he with Me.

    He who overcomes, to him I will give to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame sat with My Father on His throne." (Rev. 3:20,21)


    Verse 20 has been used for gospel preaching. I think this is borrowing the verse, which certainly can be done. But the context is that Christ is speaking here to the church and not to unbelievers.

    It is OK to borrow verse 20 for encouraging the unbeliever to open his heart to let the Lord Jesus in.

    But that is a kind of borrowing the passage somewhat out of its context.
  2. Standard membersonship
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    30 Dec '17 13:37
    "Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, then I will come int to him and dine with him and he with Me.

    He who overcomes, to him I will give to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame sat with My Father on His throne." (Rev. 3:20,21)


    To whom is Jesus Christ speaking? He is speaking to "church in Laodicea". It is prophetic and representative of a condition of the church among many conditions in the church age.

    Here we see He speaks to the Christians in the church in Laodicea.

    'b]And to the messenger of the church in Laodicea write: These things says the Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the beginning of the creation of God." (Rev. 3:14) [/b]


    The Speaker is Christ. The audience is the church in Laadicea and really all other Christians who have an ear to hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

    "He who has an ear let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." (v.22)


    Would I legally restrict verse 22 to never mean an unbeliever?
    No. The seeking man who has an ear to hear what the Spirit is saying to the seven churches will soon become a believer in Christ too.

    Christians and the churches need to open the door of the church, so to speak, to fully let Jesus Christ in and be everything that they need. That's the context.
  3. SubscriberFMF
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    30 Dec '17 13:37
    What is it you want the community to debate or discuss?
  4. Standard membersonship
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    30 Dec '17 13:411 edit
    Laodicea means something like "the opinion of the people".

    This stage of the churches degradation underlines the church filled with opinions. It is a kind of democracy in chaos. Rather than a kingdom headed up under Christ the Head the church here is rampant with "the opinion of the people".
  5. Standard membersonship
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    30 Dec '17 13:44
    Originally posted by @fmf
    What is it you want the community to debate or discuss?
    In the words of John Silber former president of Boston University in the 70s , in your case -

    "I wish some of you would shut up and learn something."
  6. SubscriberFMF
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    30 Dec '17 13:48
    Originally posted by @sonship
    In the words of John Silber former president of Boston University in the 70s , in your case -

    "I wish some of you would shut up and learn something."
    So you are taking it upon yourself to lecture the forum rather than debate or discuss something?
  7. Standard membersonship
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    30 Dec '17 13:55
    This letter is the last of the seven letters to the seven local churches. This letter represents the fall from the highest state of recovery.

    Philadelphia the local church just before Laodicea is the highest state of the Christian church. No rebuke is given to this church alone.

    Therefore the church in Laodicea is a downward fall from the church in its highest state of recovery.

    Her characteristic is the she is rich with spiritual knowledge but poverty stricken in experience. She is not fervent for the Lord yet she is not altogether cold either. She is lukewarm.

    "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot.

    So because you are lukewarm and neither hot nor cold, I am about to spew you out of My mouth." (vs. 15,16)


    This does not mean any loss of eternal salvation.
    It does mean some discipline and loss of reward in the millennial kingdom. She is defeated.

    As in every one of the seven letters to the seven churches, there is always a call to overcome whatever surrounding degradation plagues that church.

    And as in every case there is a promise of benefit or reward to those who hear and overcome the surrounding poorness or abnormal situation that Christ exposes.

    "He who overcomes, ..."


    Overcomes lukewarmness, spiritual pride, spiritual blindness, moral poverty, etc.

    They will reign with Christ in His coming to reign over the nations.

    "He who overcomes, to him I will give to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat with My Father on His throne.

    He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." (vs. 21,22)
  8. Standard membersonship
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    30 Dec '17 13:57
    Now I am ready for a good question to the astute reader.
    This letter to the church in Laodicea reminds me of a particular Old Testament book.

    Does this letter remind anyone else of a particular book in the Old Testament? If so which one. I have one in mind.
  9. SubscriberFMF
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    30 Dec '17 13:59
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Does this letter remind anyone else of a particular book in the Old Testament? If so which one. I have one in mind.
    Which particular book in the Old Testament do you have in mind?
  10. Standard membersonship
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    30 Dec '17 14:00
    Okay, to me this letter to the church in Laodicea reminds me of the book of Malachi.

    You have here as in Malachi God's priests not realizing how poor their spiritual state really is. In Malachi the audience keeps asking questions like they have no idea what God is talking about as He is exhorting and rebuking them (for their profit).

    Just my thought on this - the letter to Laodicea seems like a New Testament version of the book of Malachi.
  11. Standard membersonship
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    30 Dec '17 14:101 edit
    Now, of all the letters to the churches, THIS letter, personally to me, is the most relevant.

    I fear falling into the condition of the church in Laodicea.

    Some think that this letter represent Prostestant degradation.
    I have been helped to be convinced otherwise.
    The church which represents Protestant degregation is the church in Sardis.

    The church that represents recovery from Protestant degradation is the church in Philadelphia. Therefore, Laodicea is the fallen recovered church life.

    Again, Philadelphia is a recovery from Protestant degradation. but the recovery can fall back into degradation if it is not vigilant. This falling back into degradation of the recovered church is represented by Laodicea.

    The faults of the church in Sardis are different from the faults of the church in Laodicea.

    Philadelphia the church in-between Sardis and Laodicea has no faults. She only needs to hold on to what she has already.

    So Laodicea is the fallen recovered church.
  12. Standard membersonship
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    30 Dec '17 15:381 edit
    In each of the seven letters Christ introduces Himself according to the need and condition of that church.

    With Laodicea Christ says this:

    "These things says the Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the beginning of the creation of God."


    I highlight here that "the beginning of the creation of God" I don't think means Christ is the first created being in the universe. Rather it is the NEW creation that commences from resurrection.

    Christ is the beginning of the new creation being the Son of God in resurrection entering into a new state of being.

    Colossians confers:

    " And He [Christ] is the Head of the Body [the church] ; He is THE BEGINNING, the Firstborn from the dead, ..." (Col. 1:18)



    Of course in the old creation Christ is the source of all created things which were created through Him and unto Him. But here in Revelation 3:14, Colossians1:18 it is the beginning of the NEW CREATION - that entity of God and man united that commences with the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    Man can be regenerated to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

    " ... His great mercy has regenerated us unto a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead." (1 Pet. 1:3b)
  13. Standard membersonship
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    30 Dec '17 15:39
    Why ya'll so quiet ?
  14. Standard membersonship
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    30 Dec '17 15:481 edit
    Christ is called THE AMEN. That means a strong "So Be It!"

    Christ is the Amen to all of the positive promises of the whole Bible.
    All the promises of God find there "So Be it!" in Jesus Christ.

    He is the beginning of the new universe which will stem from man being regenerated, transformed, and resurrected. And He is the AMEN to all the positive promises of God throughout the whole revelation of the Bible.

    Paul said so.

    "For as many promises of God as there are, in Him is the Yes; therefore through Him is the Amen to God ..." (2 Cor. 1:20a)


    Whatever marvelous and wonderful promises of God there exist, in Jesus Christ is the

    YES .... that's it! That's it!

    And through His grace and in Him we are able to say AMEN ... so DO it God. Through Him, Christ, is the Amen to God.

    We need Christ to go along with God.
    When you say in spirit "Amen" you are saying another name for Jesus Christ. You are also aligning your heart with the heart of God when you "AMEN" the word of God in the Holy Spirit.

    Jesus is the AMEN, the beginning of the divine realm, the divine sphere of the creation without a trace of the former curse.

    Christ is the YES.
    Christ is the AMEN.
  15. Standard membersonship
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    30 Dec '17 15:51
    Christ, the Firstborn Son in resurrection. Christ is the beginning of the new creation of God coming out of God's death destroying victory in resurrection.
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