3 edits
Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton======================================
“...there is no evidence of life on other planets except a probability ...”
agreed. So there may or may not be intelligent life similar to us elsewhere.
“....we are unique, our consciousness makes us unique, our sense of past , present and future, or speech makes us unique, our art and literature makes us unique, in essence our spirituality mak ...[text shortened]... rtain at the present time with our current limited knowledge that we are unique in the universe.
Grant you I think we can pretty much rationally conclude that there is only a very small possibility of intelligent technologically advanced alien life with similar characteristics (such as art etc) to us within our side of the milky way because else I think that they would have surely spread by now and either communicated or shown obvious good evidence of their existence to us by now. But what about in, say, other galaxies?
==========================================
What would finding technologically advanced civilizations on othe planets do for the crises in moral corruption which is plaguing the human race?
Would finding other civilizations decrease the adulteries, thefts, computer hacking and viruses, sexual confusion, fornications, divorces, murders, oppressions, child molestations, corruption in politics, swindles, lying, broken families, religious hypocrisies (I bet you thought I'd leave that one out), etc. on planet earth ?
If we found 100 other civilizations on other planets, how would that deliver us from the sin nature which is eating away at our world like gangrene ?
Originally posted by jaywillNope. But it would certainly make the next release of Star Trek much more interesting. 😉
Would finding other civilizations decrease the adulteries, thefts, computer, sexual confusion, fornications, divorces, murders, oppressions, child molestations, corruption in politics, swindles, lying, broken families, religious hypocrisies (I bet you thought I'd leave that one out), etc. on planet earth ?
Originally posted by jaywillNobody knows the answer to that question, but it would certainly make the next release of Star Trek XIV much more interesting. 😀
Would finding other civilizations decrease the adulteries, thefts, computer, sexual confusion, fornications, divorces, murders, oppressions, child molestations, corruption in politics, swindles, lying, broken families, religious hypocrisies (I bet you thought I'd leave that one out), etc. on planet earth ?
4 edits
Originally posted by mikelomStar Trek Science Fiction is pretty idealistic.
Nope. But it would certainly make the next release of Star Trek much more interesting. 😉
The writers of that fiction have already pretty much laid out a rather optimistic view of different planet cultures working harmoniously together - Star Fleet Federation.
However, to spice things up they have to have some conflict of course. So you have your bad guys.
But realistically, look at the human track record. We are not all that good about contacting other civilizations.
For 350 years the human conscience seemed not bothered to conduct the Atlantic Slave Trade. Millions died in transport. This was kidnapping. And it was justified to the hilt. (No thanks to both Bible twisting OR Darwinism ).
Now I am not saying there are not bright spots in human history when civilizations contacted each other. But realistically, there is a considerable record of exploitation, bigotry, misunderstanding, war, etc. when one peoples contacted another.
If humans contact aliens on another planet, how long do you expect the "honeymoon" to last before some idiots get down to the business of "niggerizing" the strange culture ?
Maybe the initial honeymoon would last a few years. Then chaos.
Maybe, they won't take it. Maybe they have the technology to retaliate.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieActually there is evidence, circumstantial but evidence nonetheless. One is the meteorite from Antarctica which NASA claimed had evidence of fossilized bacteria, arguing still going on today. The second is the constant release of methane from Mars. The argument there is if methane was a one off thing, there would be none now because the martian atmosphere quickly does a number on whatever methane is there, converting it to CO2 and hydrogen or carbon and hydrogen. It keeps popping up, so there is a constant supply going on. That means one of two things, life forms underground, probably bacteria, going through its life processes one of which is to fart methane, and the other possibility is volcanic activity, which we have no real evidence of as of yet and we have taken a heck of a lot of high res photo's and seen no clear volcanic activity, although it is plain as the nose on your face (its not so plain on mine🙂 there was plenty of volcanism in the past. So those are the two ways methane can come about on Mars, and Earth also but here we know for a fact, live around cows, you get methane. So 50/50 there is something going on on Mars right now that could be life. Those two taken together is in fact listed under the heading 'evidence'. That in no way is proof for sure, but evidence nonetheless.
I am saying is that there is no evidence of such, what is you guys often say about a tooth fairy?
Are you still saying there can be no life elsewhere, the same as finding a tooth fairy on Earth? You equate those two? After all, you have teeth, you have ferries, why not tooth fairies?🙂
Originally posted by jaywillThere is a huge problem having two scientifically advanced civilizations within striking distance, stellarly speaking.
Star Trek Science Fiction is pretty idealistic.
The writers of that fiction have already pretty much laid out a rather optimistic view of different planet cultures working harmoniously together - Star Fleet Federation.
However, to spice things up they have to have some conflict of course. So you have your bad guys.
But realistically, look at the ...[text shortened]... ars. Then chaos.
Maybe, they won't take it. Maybe they have the technology to retaliate.
If you consider the galaxy and not even other galaxy but the good old milky way and its puppets, and the time civilizations seem to thrive and die on Earth, lets give our purported Earthly civilization 5000 years, a stretch but China and Egypt have been around in one form or another for about that long. So lets use that 5000 year #. Lets double it to 10,000 years. Now look at the size of the galaxy, about 100,000 light years across give or take. So we look for signals with our radio and other telescopes. We so far see nothing.
The big problem is with 100,000 light years to play with and more, counting the magellenic cloud, there is room for a bunch of radio signals to pop up and just propagate by ten times over in that ten thousand year stretch of some advanced civilization.
So we have our scopes aimed out and maybe just 100 years ago the last radio signal pooped out of the latest advanced civilization and we just were not in the right place and TIME to hear it.
Right now, we are in the middle of a radio cloud of signals coming from Earth about 200 light years across, man made radio waves coming off Earth for about the last 100 years. So suppose we do that for 10,000 years. Then a new civilization pops up 40,000 light years away. Our 10,000 light year wide band of radio signals starts off heading in their direction, they go through their 10,000 year advanced stage and our signal is on its way but 40,000 years later, their civilization has come and gone, no contact possible.
That shows the most likely scenario of galactic civilizations coming in contact with one another. Now in those 10,000 years of our hopeful advanced stage of civilization, limited to the speed of light, we could have craft say 5000 light years away, setting up shop on planets that far away. But the milky way is 100,000 light years across and even in that scenario, we have a good chance of running into exactly nothing in the way of scientifically advanced civilizations.
We would more likely find planet bound species, like ape analogs or some such, dinosaurs, reptilians or some such analog but that is a long way evolutionarily speaking from advanced scientific life.
Any way you look at it, the possibility is much greater for there to be maybe one or two advanced civilization in any given galaxy.
In our search for ET, we could look at galaxies face on, millions of light years away, we would have a better chance of finding them but given that sort of distance, good luck striking up a conversation!
Originally posted by sonhousei do believe in fairies, I am partly Irish after all, but these evidences that you present are purely speculative and rely on inferences rather than any solid proof. It seems to me that they are like the religious relics of medieval Europe, holy grails if you like, NASA is merely a cathedral and the scientists monks.
Actually there is evidence, circumstantial but evidence nonetheless. One is the meteorite from Antarctica which NASA claimed had evidence of fossilized bacteria, arguing still going on today. The second is the constant release of methane from Mars. The argument there is if methane was a one off thing, there would be none now because the martian atmosphere q ...[text shortened]... ? You equate those two? After all, you have teeth, you have ferries, why not tooth fairies?🙂
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhen you write that NASA is like "religious relics of the medieval Europe", then you criticize NASA, quite severe, without knowing much, don't wanting to know much. Is anyone feeling insulted by these words? Does sonhouse feel insulted? Have you ever thought about it?
It seems to me that they are like the religious relics of medieval Europe, holy grails if you like, NASA is merely a cathedral and the scientists monks.
When I criticize Jehowas Witness as being a fundamentalist cult, harbour paedophiles among its leaders, sacrificing children to death by denying them a blood transfusion, discriminate other groups like homosexuals and muslims generalizing them as being immoral and violent every one of them - when doing this then *you* feel insulted, personally insulted.
Now, what is the difference between the two examples above? Take into account that Jesus himself said that "you shouldn't behave unto others the way you don't want others to behave towards you". Isn't this a good word from a man you honour?
Do you think that noone should insult you as you insult others? That you have the right to be more touchy than them who debate with? That others are stronger mentally so they can be insulted without hurting them? Or that christians are the only one that have the right to insult others, and others insulting christians is worth hell?
I consider you as my good friend, I give you a good advice here, from one friend to another. I think this posting is worth thinking over. What do you say?
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe difference is that for the tooth fairy to exist, the supernatural has to exist, but, for aliens to exist, only the natural material would has to exist and, more specifically, life.
I am saying is that there is no evidence of such, what is you guys often say about a tooth fairy?
We cannot rationally know that the supernatural exists but we DO rationally know that life can exist because we are an example of such life.
So, for this reason, a claim that there exists alien life, even if false and without any direct evidence, is not even in the same league of absurdity as a claim that there exists a tooth fairy.
2 edits
Originally posted by jaywillNo, but nobody I know of claims it would and I don't see what that has to do with anything so I don't see the point you are trying making here.
[b]======================================
Grant you I think we can pretty much rationally conclude that there is only a very small possibility of intelligent technologically advanced alien life with similar characteristics (such as art etc) to us within our side of the milky way because else I think that they would have surely spread by now and either commu ...[text shortened]... would that deliver us from the sin nature which is eating away at our world like gangrene ?[/b]
Unless you imply that the truth or falsity of the hypothesis that there exists aliens should be judge on what if any benefits such a discovery would make on our social lives as opposed to being judge on the evidence? -surely you don't mean that, right?
Originally posted by Andrew HamiltonLife IS the supernatural, and if it wasn't then you could make some life in your test tube....but you cannot do this.
The difference is that for the tooth fairy to exist, the supernatural has to exist, but, for aliens to exist, only the natural material would has to exist and, more specifically, life.
We cannot rationally know that the supernatural exists but we DO rationally know that life can exist because we are an example of such life.
So, for this reason, a c ...[text shortened]... vidence, is not even in the same league of absurdity as a claim that there exists a tooth fairy.
Where is my ant?
You have the madness disease which means you cannot perceive reality, so you think that there is something wrong with people that can perceive reality.
Originally posted by vishvahetuWhat rational will you come up with when life is in fact created here on Earth in a test tube as they say? Genetic science is getting closer to that all the time. I would have to assume, given your take on things, that if we create some virus or bacteria in a test tube from basic materials, you would just come back with, oh, well, that is not REALLY life, even though it eats, shytes, breathes, reproduces like any other virus or bacteria. Isn't that going to be the gist of your post man made life argument?
Life IS the supernatural, and if it wasn't then you could make some life in your test tube....but you cannot do this.
Where is my ant?
You have the madness disease which means you cannot perceive reality, so you think that there is something wrong with people that can perceive reality.
6 edits
Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton==============================
No, but nobody I know of claims it would and I don't see what that has to do with anything so I don't see the point you are trying making here.
Unless you imply that the truth or falsity of the hypothesis that there exists aliens should be judge on what if any benefits such a discovery would make on our social lives as opposed to being judge on the evidence? -surely you don't mean that, right?
No, but nobody I know of claims it would and I don't see what that has to do with anything so I don't see the point you are trying making here.
Unless you imply that the truth or falsity of the hypothesis that there exists aliens should be judge on what if any benefits such a discovery would make on our social lives as opposed to being judge on the evidence? -surely you don't mean that, right?
=================================
I think when you come down to it, all advancement of technology has as its goal to improve the quality of human life.
Even the making of a hydrogen bomb has a goal of finally getting our enemies off our back, or at least scaring the enemy so much that he wouldn't dare attack us - a "deterent".
The searching for a habital planet like the earth has an implied interest in going somewhere else to live a better life. Of course being sinners we would only transport our problems to another place.
The searcing for other intelligent civilizations also has an implied longing that they might "complete" or at least add to our knowledge. And why ?
Well, we need more knowledge to make our lives better. We need more knowledge and more knowledge and more and more to improve human life.
You don't see the connection between scientific curiosity and the human longing to make human life better ?
They have absolutely nothing to do with each other ?
=================================
Unless you imply that the truth or falsity of the hypothesis that there exists aliens should be judge on what if any benefits such a discovery would make on our social lives as opposed to being judge on the evidence? -surely you don't mean that, right?
==================================
No I don't mean benefit to us is a test of plausibility.
I ask, why are we interested ? And I think the answer is related to our longing for a better life for humans.
And if such contact did not result in an improvement of the human lot, what then ? What next ??
Originally posted by jaywillWell that's a big Duh, scientific curiosity driving up the quality of human existence. It for sure hasn't come from some infinitely powerful god. I don't know how you can continue to cling to the god myth when you see people living their lives in absolute pain, like that family recently on the discovery channel where all the family members have some kind of tumor completely coving there entire body, tennis ball sized tumors not cancerous so they have to live with tennis ball sized tumors on their face, arms, chest back, etc. So what huge plan is there for a god to let that happen?
[b]==============================
No, but nobody I know of claims it would and I don't see what that has to do with anything so I don't see the point you are trying making here.
Unless you imply that the truth or falsity of the hypothesis that there exists aliens should be judge on what if any benefits such a discovery would make on our social liv ...[text shortened]... ng to make human life better ?
They have absolutely nothing to do with each other ?