Rochdale grooming trial: Split views on race issue

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
THEISTS similar to yourself that were responsible for mass murder - Humy

LOL, its a rather interesting statement considering i gave up fishing because i could not
stand to inflict pain on a single worm nor put a barbed hook into a fishes mouth and yet
i am guilty, one can only assume through association, with professing the same beliefs
as m ...[text shortened]... d blast out psycho killer in honour of this post.

Cant seem to face up to the facts. . . .LOL

do you deny that most Nazis were theist?

Originally posted by sonhouse
So the illegality here is giving people lice? What is the issue here?

Lol, I can't imagine. Ask robbie.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I dont think its as tenuous a link Finn as you are making out, we are talking of
principles and their application, clearly there are similarities with Darwinism and
Applied Darwinism or Social Darwinism, depending on what you wish to term it and its a
far broader and more subversive teaching than is immediately apparent, ranging from
economics to criminality to sexuality.

...and Applied Darwinism or Social Darwinism

which Darwinism “Applied”? Social Darwinism or biological Darwinism?
Social Darwinism is clearly not “applied” biological Darwinism for biological Darwinism is not a theory of how we should behave. Social Darwinism is mainly a theist doctrine and I guess “applied” social Darwinism would be something like when delusional people, usually mainly theists, such as the Nazis, commit mass murder of people they say are “inferior” .


robbie:

do you know that biological Darwinism is not social Darwinism?
googling each one and read the definitions then came back to me.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Satan the Devil was Hitler's god so that makes him a theist or an atheist. 😏

so which was he according to you?
He believed there is a God so that mean he was a theist by definition. If you don't believe me, just Google “theist” read the definition and came back to me.
Or you could just note:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/theist
“..Belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in a personal God as creator and ruler of the world. ...”

Originally posted by humy
do you deny that most Nazis were theist?

do you deny that most Nazis were theist? - Humy

I deny that this has any relevance, other than to provide explicit proof of your anti
religious bias. Do you deny that the Khmer Rouge were atheists? No, then why
have you made no mention of the killing fields of Cambodia? The real question that
we should be seeking to ask ourselves is, what motivated the Nazis, what elements
formed their ideology. You have made the claim that it was because they held
similar beliefs to theists like me, yet my particular sect of Christianity was ruthlessly
punished by the Nazis. Is there any evidence that they were influenced at least to a
degree by a religious ideology? I would say yes, but to a degree and not
exclusively. For example Hitler states in Mein Kampf,

"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by
defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

"The personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of
the Jew."

However it is also clear that he was deeply influenced by social Darwinism which
derives certain principles directly from biological Darwinism, despite the tendency to
try to distance the two, for example,

"Whatever survives these hardships of existence has been tested and tried a
thousandfold, hardened and renders fit to continue the process of procreation; so
that the same thorough selection will begin all over again. By thus dealing brutally
with the individual and recalling him the very moment he shows that he is not fitted
for the trials of life, Nature preserves the strength of the race and the species and
raises it to the highest degree of efficiency."

"By leaving the process of procreation unchecked and by submitting the individual to
the hardest preparatory tests in life, Nature selects the best from an abundance of
single elements and stamps them as fit to live and carry on the conservation of the
species."

So it can easily be determined dear Humy that your assertions of theism as being a
motivating factor may indeed be valid, but alas they do not tell the whole story and
unless you rid yourself of the bias you will continue to make biased assertions which
when exposed to the light of truth, may wither and diminish in its light. You can still
be an atheist and avoid dogmatic thinking as far as it is dependent upon you, but as
soon as you submit to bias one runs the risk of appearing close minded.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
do you deny that most Nazis were theist? - Humy

I deny that this has any relevance, other than to provide explicit proof of your anti
religious bias. Do you deny that the Khmer Rouge were atheists? No, then why
have you made no mention of the killing fields of Cambodia? The real question that
we should be seeking to ask ourselves is, what ...[text shortened]... on you, but as
soon as you submit to bias one runs the risk of appearing close minded.

In other words; no 🙂

Originally posted by humy
In other words; no 🙂

I dont think your getting it dear Humy, they appear to me to be more a personality cult
than theistic and took their influences from many quarters.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I dont think your getting it dear Humy, they appear to me to be more a personality cult
than theistic and took their influences from many quarters.

The "influences from many quarters" on Nazi policies, whether they be economic, geopolitical, military etc., are somewhat of a red herring here, robbie. The specific hatred and scapegoating of Jews is deeply ingrained in, and evident throughout, the history of Christianity. The Jews were not singled out and targeted because of atheism; they were targeted because they have been singled out by Christians and movements related to, or drawing upon, Christian "traditions", for centuries, including the Nazis.

Originally posted by FMF
The "influences from many quarters" on Nazi policies, whether they be economic, geopolitical, military etc., are somewhat of a red herring here, robbie. The specific hatred and scapegoating of Jews is deeply ingrained in, and evident throughout, the history of Christianity. The Jews were not singled out and targeted because of atheism; they were targeted because ...[text shortened]... nts related to, or drawing upon, Christian "traditions", for centuries, including the Nazis.

Then perhaps you can point out which Christian principles influenced them dear FMF.
Indeed i can point out where Christ warns of the folly of following the traditions of
former times which invalidate the word of God, sigh, if only the Nazis had read the
same! So again, which principles of Christianity were they acting upon, if you cannot
find any what does that make of your assertion that they were Christians dear FMF?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Then perhaps you can point out which Christian principles influenced them dear FMF.

Not really interested in your repeated use of the ahistorical No True Scotsman logical fallacy, robbie. The Nazis' singling out of the Jews drew its twisted logic and fervour from the Christian tradition, robbie. If the Nazis genocidal programme had been an 'atheist' one, then millions of German Christians would have been sent to slave labour camps and/or the gas chambers. Instead, Nazism was rooted it Christianity and therefore it was the Jews who sent to the slave labour camps and the gas chambers.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I dont think your getting it dear Humy, they appear to me to be more a personality cult
than theistic and took their influences from many quarters.

but you still don't deny that Hitler ( and also most Nazi ) were theist so why this dishonest vindictive spiteful perennial pretence that atheism is the cause ( or at least one of the causes ) for the Nazi atrocities? -there is no evidence of such a thing so STOP THE SPITEFUL PRETENCE.
In fact, if there is evidence for anything here, there is evidence that THEISM was at least part of the cause and NOT atheism and seemingly good evidence at that.

Originally posted by FMF
Not really interested in your repeated use of the ahistorical No True Scotsman logical fallacy, robbie. The Nazis' singling out of the Jews drew its twisted logic and fervour from the Christian tradition, robbie. If the Nazis genocidal programme had been an 'atheist' one, then millions of German Christians would have been sent to slave labour camps and/or the g ...[text shortened]... ianity and therefore it was the Jews who sent to the slave labour camps and the gas chambers.

the principles FMF, you have inferred that the Nazis were Christians, if you cannot
provide evidence of them being Christians other than vague assertions of traditions
then your assertion is untenable and no amount of appeals to rhetorical arguments can
save it! Where are the Christian principles which influenced them FMF? You have not
said?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
the principles FMF, you have inferred that the Nazis were Christians, if you cannot
provide evidence of them being Christians other than vague assertions of traditions
then your assertion is untenable and no amount of appeals to rhetorical arguments can
save it! Where are the Christian principles which influenced them FMF? You have not
said?

If you believe that centuries of intense anti-semitism in Christendom was the result of "atheism" - i.e. a belief that there is no God - then that is a matter for you robbie. No True Scotsman works for you, it seems, but it doesn't work for me. I will bow out and leave you to it.

Originally posted by humy
but you still don't deny that Hitler ( and also most Nazi ) were theist so why this dishonest vindictive spiteful perennial pretence that atheism is the cause ( or at least one of the causes ) for the Nazi atrocities? -there is no evidence of such a thing so STOP THE SPITEFUL PRETENCE.
In fact, if there is evidence for anything here, there is evidence that THEISM was at least part of the cause and NOT atheism and seemingly good evidence at that.

First of all i have not stated that atheism was an influence, i have stated that Social
Darwinism was, please do try to keep within the realms of reality, secondly I have
provided reference which demonstrates this very fact and lastly abusive ad hominem
attempts to insinuate that i am either spiteful or under any kind of pretence are also
beneath my dignity, I have been both civil and balanced in my portrayal of what
influenced the Nazis. Be careful when fighting monsters that you dont become one 🙂

Originally posted by FMF
No True Scotsman works for you, it seems, but it doesn't work for me. I will bow out and leave you to it.

the principles FMF, you have not said which Christian principles influenced the Nazis,
despite the third time asking, sigh. One would think that a Marxist might at least be
influenced by the teachings of Marx, or a Muslim by the teachings of Islam, but
apparently not a Christian by the teachings of Christianity, interesting anomaly.

so either the Nazis were not Christians or you can find no evidence that they were
influenced by Christian principles. I see, how vewy vewy intwesting! 🙂