Rochdale grooming trial: Split views on race issue

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
the principles FMF, you have not said which Christian principles influenced the Nazis,
despite the third time asking, sigh. One would think that a Marxist might at least be
influenced by the teachings of Marx, or a Muslim by the teachings of Islam, but
apparently not a Christian by the teachings of Christianity, interesting anomaly.

so eith ...[text shortened]... o evidence that they were
influenced by Christian principles. I see, how vewy vewy intwesting!

You claimed, when quizzed as to whether you deny that the Nazis were theists, that "actually Hitler was far more influenced by atheistic philosophers". So, it seems that you do not perceive there to have been any anti-semitism in Christendom for centuries, culminating in the Holocaust. I will accept, for the sake of wanting to bow out of this wearisome No True Scotsman thing, that you honestly believe that. Perhaps you could tell us which particular "atheistic philosophers" - apart from Nazi "thinkers" themselves - advocated the gassing of the Jews, specifically, and for the same reasons that Christians had been oppressing them for centuries? You mentioned Nietzsche. You believe he agitated for the Holocaust?

Originally posted by FMF
You claimed, when quizzed as to whether you deny that the Nazis were theists, that "actually Hitler was far more influenced by atheistic philosophers". So, it seems that you do not perceive there to have been any anti-semitism in Christendom for centuries, culminating in the Holocaust. I will accept, for the sake of wanting to bow out of this wearisome No True S ...[text shortened]... ng them for centuries? You mentioned Nietzsche. You believe he agitated for the Holocaust?

How does Hitler being influenced by atheistic philosophers equate to your assertion that
I do not perceive any anti Semitism in Christendom, which rather interestingly, I have
never claimed. If you can provide no evidence that the Nazis were influenced by any
Christian principles why should we believe your assertion that they were indeed
Christians? Provide the evidence FMF and it should be easy to accept.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
How does Hitler being influenced by atheistic philosophers equate to your assertion that
I do not perceive any anti Semitism in Christendom, which rather interestingly, I have
never claimed.

Did Christians oppress the Jews in Europe throughout the centuries? Or were they not Christians, if they did oppress them?

Originally posted by FMF
Did Christians oppress the Jews in Europe throughout the centuries? Or were they not Christians, if they did oppress them?

Unless we can find any evidence that they were being influenced by Christian principles
its simply an assumption to state they were Christians dear FMF.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Unless we can find any evidence that they were being influenced by Christian principles
its simply an assumption to state they were Christians dear FMF.

OK, robbie, I accept that that is your view. Two questions for you. Do you accept or deny that the Jews were oppressed by Christians down through the centuries? And, assuming that you will perhaps balk at denying that, do you believe that centuries of intense anti-semitism in Christendom was the result of "atheism" - i.e. a belief that there is no God?

Originally posted by FMF
OK, robbie, I accept that that is your view. Two questions for you. Do you accept or deny that the Jews were oppressed by Christians down through the centuries? And, assuming that you will balk at denying it, do you believe that centuries of intense anti-semitism in Christendom was the result of "atheism" - i.e. a belief that there is no God?

First i do not accept they were Christians, there is no evidence they were Christians
and as you have provided none I am forced to conclude that they were something else
and I cannot say why they persecuted the Jews, perhaps it was ignorance. jealousy of
the Jews business acumen, perceived irregularities such as usury, superstitions about
the Jews, I dunno.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
First i do not accept they were Christians, there is no evidence they were Christians
and as you have provided none I am forced to conclude that they were something else
and I cannot say why they persecuted the Jews, perhaps it was ignorance. jealousy of
the Jews business acumen, perceived irregularities such as usury, superstitions about
the Jews, I dunno.

Well, I have already accepted that you are implaccable about taking your No True Scotsman stance on 2,000 years of European Christendom, robbie.

And - for the sake of drawing a line under that kind of 'analysis' - I have also accepted that you are being earnest when you take that stance.

So, I understand and accept that it is your view that the Nazis were not Christians.

So I suppose that leaves you free to claim whatever you want about them and then extrapolate whatever you want from that, and then base whatever conclusions you want on it. I will leave you to it.

Originally posted by FMF
Well, I have already accepted that you are implaccable about taking your No True Scotsman stance on 2,000 years of European Christendom, robbie.

And - for the sake of drawing a line under that kind of 'analysis' - I have also accepted that you are being earnest when you take that stance.

So, I understand and accept that it is your view that the Nazis wer ...[text shortened]... you want from that, and then base whatever conclusions you want on it. I will leave you to it.

please see the Gmans thread on what it means to be a Christian.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
please see the Gmans thread on what it means to be a Christian.

Why?

Are his no true Scotsman arguments any better than yours?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
please see the Gmans thread on what it means to be a Christian.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Why?

Are his no true Scotsman arguments any better than yours?

rec'd

Originally posted by googlefudge
Why?

Are his no true Scotsman arguments any better than yours?

sigh why dont you simply provide the evidence, making references to rhetorical
arguments are simply that, making references to rhetorical arguments, if you have
evidence then let it be known otherwise you are arguing on the basis of assumptions
and such castles made of sand fall into the sea eventually.

Originally posted by FMF
rec'd

You have provided not a shred of evidence with which to substantiate your claims, I am
sorry but we are under no duress to accept your claims unless you provide evidence.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
sigh why dont you simply provide the evidence, making references to rhetorical
arguments are simply that, making references to rhetorical arguments, if you have
evidence then let it be known otherwise you are arguing on the basis of assumptions.
Castles made of sand fall into the sea eventually.

The evidence for what?

That Christians have persecuted Jews throughout their history?

That the Nazi's were theists and generally Christian theists?

That your tiny cult doesn't get to dictate to the rest of the world who does or does not get
to where the label Christian or what qualifies a person to hold that label?


What's the point?

FMF has done a perfectly good job of doing all that and you have ignored him like you will
undoubtedly ignore me.

You are unmoveable from your no true Scotsman position and have never engaged in a reasonable
debate with me about anything.


Anyone who isn't as ignorant and indoctrinated as you are should as part of their general knowledge
already know al the historical info that demonstrates that the Christians have throughout history
(to varying degrees) persecuted the Jews.

It's like asking me to provide evidence for my assertion that the world is an oblate spheroid.

If you can't already see that it's true there is no point in my trying to convince you.

Originally posted by googlefudge
The evidence for what?

That Christians have persecuted Jews throughout their history?

That the Nazi's were theists and generally Christian theists?

That your tiny cult doesn't get to dictate to the rest of the world who does or does not get
to where the label Christian or what qualifies a person to hold that label?


What's the point?

FM
If you can't already see that it's true there is no point in my trying to convince you.

Evidence that the Nazis were Christians. If they are Christians as was claimed which
particular Christian principles did they adopt? Why should we accept the assertion that
they are Christians if you fail to provide any evidence to substantiate that assertion? If
you cannot state why they are Christians, then its an assumption which we are under
no duress to accept. Simply provide the evidence, it should be easy.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
You have provided not a shred of evidence with which to substantiate your claims [that Jews were oppressed by Christians for 2,000 years), I am
sorry but we are under no duress to accept your claims unless you provide evidence.

I remember a friend of a friend, 25 years ago. A builder. National Front member. He also denied that Jews had been persecuted by Christians down through the ages. He couldn't substantiate his claims mind you. But he too said I had "not a shred of evidence". Funny, these odd little symmetries that people coming from different angles can find themselves in.