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    11 Jul '17 02:23
    18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth [l]in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident [m]within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not [n]honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and [o]crawling creatures.

    24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for [p]a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed [q]forever. Amen.

    26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is [r]unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing [s]indecent acts and receiving in [t]their own persons the due penalty of their error.

    28 And just as they did not see fit [u]to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, [v]haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.


    Paul says men and women giving up their natural relationships (man and woman) as a punishment for rebellion against God.

    I guess this is a part of the Bible liberals ignore.
  2. SubscriberSuzianne
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    11 Jul '17 04:08
    Originally posted by Eladar
    [b]18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth [l]in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident [m]within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been ...[text shortened]... a punishment for rebellion against God.

    I guess this is a part of the Bible liberals ignore.
    Only the New American Standard Bible feels it necessary to provide footnotes.

    Try using a bible not meant for morons.

    "Paul says men and women giving up their natural relationships (man and woman) as a punishment for rebellion against God."

    Do you want to re-write this sentence so it makes sense?
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    11 Jul '17 04:101 edit
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Only the New American Standard Bible feels it necessary to provide footnotes.

    Try using a bible not meant for morons.

    [b]"Paul says men and women giving up their natural relationships (man and woman) as a punishment for rebellion against God."


    Do you want to re-write this sentence so it makes sense?[/b]
    Natural relation means man and woman, as in Adam and Eve.

    Homosexual relationships are unnatural and a punishment from God according to Paul. Their desire for the same sex and acting upon it is degraded behavior and Paul writes worthy of death.
  4. SubscriberSuzianne
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    11 Jul '17 04:13
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Natural relation means man and woman, as in Adam and Eve.

    Homosexual relationships are unnatural and a punishment from God according to Paul. Their desire for the same sex and acting upon it is degraded behavior and Paul writes worthy of death.
    Do you think bigotry is approved by God?
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    11 Jul '17 04:16
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Do you think bigotry is approved by God?
    Bigotry against immoral behavior?

    The immoral are going to hell because of their behavior. Do you think this makes God an immoral bigot?
  6. SubscriberFMF
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    11 Jul '17 04:43
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Do you think bigotry is approved by God?
    As a Christian do you believe homosexual sex is immoral and "sinful"?
  7. Standard membersonship
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    11 Jul '17 13:262 edits
    Originally posted by Eladar
    [b]18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth [l]in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident [m]within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been ...[text shortened]... a punishment for rebellion against God.

    I guess this is a part of the Bible liberals ignore.
    What are you trying to conserve ?

    There was a period in human history in which there was no government. From the time of Adam until immediately after the flood there was a true anarchy (in the positive sense of the word at least). There was a true libertarian situation in society.

    Those days are long gone. Are you trying to get them back?
    Is that what you are trying to "conserve" ?

    If you are trying to conserve a good experience of the new testament salvation that is wonderful.

    If you are just trying to get back to a society without government when people did what was right in their own eyes, like before the Flood of Noah, that is not that great.
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    11 Jul '17 13:58
    Originally posted by sonship
    What are you trying to [b]conserve ?

    There was a period in human history in which there was no government. From the time of Adam until immediately after the flood there was a true anarchy (in the positive sense of the word at least). There was a true libertarian situation in society.

    Those days are long gone. Are you trying to get them back?
    Is ...[text shortened]... le did what was right in their own eyes, like before the Flood of Noah, that is not that great.[/b]
    Are you saying Paul is wrong?
  9. Standard memberKellyJay
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    11 Jul '17 14:09
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Do you think bigotry is approved by God?
    When you read that scripture what do you think it means without anyone here telling you?
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    11 Jul '17 15:13
    Let me get one thing staight. Do you think our governments' laws should it illegal to be or do any of those things mentioned in your posting, with death being the penalty? Do you think any one of them should have a lesser penalty? If so, which ones and what penalty?
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    11 Jul '17 15:41
    Originally posted by JS357
    Let me get one thing staight. Do you think our governments' laws should it illegal to be or do any of those things mentioned in your posting, with death being the penalty? Do you think any one of them should have a lesser penalty? If so, which ones and what penalty?
    Do you mean death penalty for murder? Sure, I think murder should be punished by the death penalty, as should rape.

    Slander? Same as the laws on the book.

    Homosexuality? No punishment by the government. Yet homosexuality should not be pushed as something moral by the government. The government should stay out of moral issues and not push one side.

    Hope that answers your question.
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    11 Jul '17 17:594 edits
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Are you saying Paul is wrong?
    Concerning Romans 1, I consider it the oracles of God.
    I think that as Paul wrote this he had before him the history in Genesis.
    Women and men left their natural use for perversion.

    I am asking you only to give a description of what you are trying to conserve.
    You freely use the term liberal as if it is the source of evil itself.

    Okay, I got it. You are a real strong conservative.
    What exactly are you interested in conserving ?

    Okay, we got it.
    Liberal is bad.
    Conservative is good.

    Fine. What are you really interested in conserving ?
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    11 Jul '17 18:061 edit
    Originally posted by sonship
    I am asking you only to give a description of what you are trying to [b]conserve.
    You freely use the term liberal as if it is the source of evil itself.

    Okay, I got it. You are a real strong conservative.
    What exactly are you interested in conserving ?

    Concerning Romans 1, I consider it the oracles of God.
    I think t ...[text shortened]... ]
    Conservative is good.

    Fine. What are you really interested in conserving ?[/b]
    Liberal... Exlain away why the Bible is wrong on certain issues. A perfect example of this is homosexuality. Liberals believe that a person who engages in homosexual sex are not inherently committing a sinful act.

    Conservatives take the Bible at face value, therefore believing that homosexual sex under any condition is sinful.
  14. Standard membersonship
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    11 Jul '17 18:213 edits
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Liberal... Exlain away why the Bible is wrong on certain issues. A perfect example of this is homosexuality. Liberals believe that a person who engages in homosexual sex are not inherentlt committing a sinful act.

    Conservatives take the Bible at face value, therefore believing that homosexual sex under any condition is sinful.
    I never said that the Bible was wrong in Romans 1 or elsewhere.

    Is it fair to get from your reply -

    Conservatives take the Bible at face value,


    your main interest is to conserve a face value interpretation of the Bible's words ?
    Is that the main reason for your conservatism ?

    Understanding the Bible at face value is slipping away and you want to conserve this ability from disappearing ?

    Me too. I want to not preseve a good apprehension of the Word of God from being eroded.

    What is your "face value" interpretation of Christ's words when He says this ?

    "You cannot serve God and mammon." (See Matt. 6:24)


    Still interested in "face value" understanding of the Bible. Right ?
  15. Standard memberKellyJay
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    11 Jul '17 18:24
    Originally posted by sonship
    I never said that the Bible was wrong in [b]Romans 1 or elsewhere.

    Is it fair to get from your reply -

    Conservatives take the Bible at face value,


    your main interest is to conserve a face value interpretation of the Bible's words ?
    Is that the main reason for your conservatism ?

    Understanding the Bible at face value is ...[text shortened]... hrist's words when He says this ?

    "You cannot serve God and mammon."
    [/b]
    Without the Spirit of God does it matter if one is conservative, liberal, or progressive?
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