09 Oct '14 17:54>
Originally posted by Rajk999
You said this three times
1. a firm foundation for eternal salvation is required to grow ..
2. FIRST have to lay a firm foundation of Grace and the Assurance of eternal life and eternal redemption.
3. as the New Testament lays, a firm foundation of God's grace for the normal overcoming Christian walk.
If I repeat myself that much in one post then it has to be essential and I got it straight from the mouth of Christ of the Apostles, that is crystal clear doctrine.
Fair enough.
Two responses I have to this.
1.) I certainly regard the book of Hebrews to be Jesus Christ SPEAKING to us, if not from His earthly ministry then through His heavenly ministry via the apostles.
Do you regard the book of Hebrews as the word of God as the Gospel of Matthew in the "red letters" for example, is the word of God ? I do.
Hebrews chapter 6, which I think you like, says of the foundation -
"Therefore leaving the word of the beginning of Christ, let us be brought on to maturity, not laying again a FOUNDATION of repentance from dead works and of faith in God, ..." (Hebrews 6:1)
Did you get that ? The FOUNDATION of the Christian life is repentance from dead works and faith in God. This has to mean no longer relying on your own good works of the law to redeem you forever, but faith in Jesus Christ who is God sent and indeed God incarnated to be our Redeemer.
Foundational - not to trust for eternal life our good works - "dead works" because the unbeliever is essentially "dead" in his spiritual being towards God. Repentance from DEAD WORKS is replaced with FAITH in God. Christ is God sent and God incarnated to SAVE us.
But you may object in case you do not regard the book of Hebrews as the inspired oracles of God - His word, as I think you should.
"But where in the red letters of Jesus' direct quotations from the Gospel is this 'foundation' you speak of ? "
Fair enough, I submit that it is here as well, right in the "red letters".
"I am the true vine, and My Father is the husbandman. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes it away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it that it may bear more fruit.
YOU ARE ALREADY CLEAN BECAUSE OF HE WORD WHICH I HAVE SPOKEN TO YOU." (John 15:1,2)
Excuse me for raising my voice. But you can see that the disciples, whether they will taken away from abiding OR pruned to bear even more fruit - "are already CLEAN" .
Their ABIDING and fruit bearing is upon the FOUNDATION that they have ALREADY been made clean through the word which Jesus has spoken to them and they have believed.
The Foundation of Justification, of being CLEAN from iniquity before God, is already lain. And UPON that foundation other matters important to the eternal purpose of God are now introduced. That is mainly ABIDING in Christ for the fruit bearing.
The same thing I think is conveyed in Christ speaking of His coming redemptive death -
"And He took a cup and gave thanks, and He gave it to them, saying, Drink of it, all of you. For this is My blood of the covenant, which is being poured out for many for forgiveness of sins." (Matt. 26:27,28)
You see Jesus does not say "ONLY forgiveness is important in the new covenant." But He does emphasize that the BEGINNING of the new covenant is FORGIVENESS. In other words, a foundation for ALL that is included in the new covenant is the fact of eternal redemption - forgiveness for all past sins.
So to disciple the nations to follow Jesus we should lay a firm foundation that in the blood of Christ there is eternal redemption. We are FORGIVEN. Let is start there.
I said "START" there. Please do not morph this into me teaching that we FINISH there. Forgiveness and cleansing with His shed blood is the Christian's foundation.
Like how I harp on Christ commandments because He said:
- if you follow my commandments you are my disciples
- if you love me follow my commandments
- you are my friends if you follow my commandments
etc etc.
I am not saying that you should not point out the commandments of Christ.
But His commandments are too numerous and there are many unwritten. How I speak with my spouse today in a disagreement, will involve some commandments of the Lord Jesus living within me.
Most of the time His commandments are simply NOT to do something which we normally would do.
"Don't say that." - a command of Jesus.
" Don't think that. " - another command of Jesus.
"Don't go that way." - another command of Jesus.
A young child first learns the word "NO". If you raise kids you will find after Mommy or Daddy they will pick up the word "No". That is because your raising them will involving you saying many many times "No."
Spiritually speaking it is similar. Many times the Holy Spirit which IS the indwelling Jesus Christ (2 Cor. 3:17; 1 Cor 15:45) will begin to instruct us by saying "No" to what we have spontaneously done by habit without thinking.
And this kind of inward regulating goes deeper and deeper. It is a life long process from which the disciple never graduates.
And he or she also never graduates from the need to believe that the blood of Jesus Christ has cleansed us from all sins. That is the firm foundation.
So could you point to a reference ? [Note : not an explanation just a reference, thanks]
I think I did above.
Do you need more ? Look at the chapter under reference, John 14. Look at the sequence of His instructions here:
"Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak from Myself, but the Father who abides in Me does His works.
Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; but if not, believe because of the works themselves. Truly, truly, I say to you, He who believes into Me, the works which I do he shall do also; and greater works than these he shall do because I am going to the Father." (John 14:10-12)
Preceding the WORKS that the disciples are to do, is the believing that Jesus is Divine, the Son of God. IE the Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father. If this is too profound for us we should believe because of the works that Christ did.
Believing INTO Christ is foundational.
His works flowing out of the believer are the following issue or the normal Christian life.