Russian orthodox pope wears $30,000 watch:

Originally posted by Proper Knob
So you agree with the two objections i raised, but felt the need to go off on a tangent about my hypocrisy, excuses, extravagance and my denial/lying/dishonesty (whichever you think it is) about the assertions you inserted even though you know absolutely nothing about me.

I am claiming that I do not need to know anything about you. I am claiming that we are all extravagant in some way and that it is hypocritical to call others extravagant whilst not acknowledging our own. This is not a personal attack on you in any way. I am interested in discussing:
1. The morality surrounding the fact that there are poorer people than ourselves in the world and what we should do about it.
2. What the Christian view is on this issue, especially considering the verse quoted, and whether or not Christians in general follow that particular teaching of Christ.
If you have no interest in discussing them, then thats fine.
If I was rude, or sounded like I was attacking you personally then I apologize.

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I don't see this at all as a grotesque display of wealth. Quite possibly this is a gift he wore once without appreciating its value. How can you know otherwise? Are you in the habit of harshly judging moral character? No doubt Patriarch Kirill receives various gifts on a weekly basis. How would he necessarily know the value of any of them?

How the Russian Orthodox Church is an 'overblown religious organisation' is beyond me. About 2% of the population identifies as Russian Orthodox. Very few of that 2% even attends church regularly. Nonetheless, the Russian Orthodox Church oversees many schools, charities, prison programs and various other outreach activities. I don't think you know anything.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I am claiming that I do not need to know anything about you. I am claiming that we are all extravagant in some way and that it is hypocritical to call others extravagant whilst not acknowledging our own. This is not a personal attack on you in any way. I am interested in discussing:
1. The morality surrounding the fact that there are poorer people than o ...[text shortened]... hen thats fine.
If I was rude, or sounded like I was attacking you personally then I apologize.

If I was rude, or sounded like I was attacking you personally then I apologize.

No problem. I'll give your questions some thought and get back to you.

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I am not Russian Orthodox. I just do not see how the Patriarch can be found morally at fault here. I think I have presented several reasons why this is the case. if you have anything substantive to say i.e. an actual argument, please share it.

Originally posted by Conrau K
I am not Russian Orthodox. I just do not see how the Patriarch can be found morally at fault here. I think I have presented several reasons why this is the case. if you have anything substantive to say i.e. an actual argument, please share it.

if he had spent 1 billion on a watch, would that be wrong?

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Although we categorize Church organizations as non-profit, that is not the
purpose of establishing a Christian Church. The churches usually do accept
donations from members to give to the needy, however, the purpose of the
church is to provide a large place for all the Christians to come together to
pray and worship God and honor Christ and give thanks to him as well as
learn of Christ's teaching to come to a better understand of what it means
to be a Christian in fellowship with other Christians. Some Churches do
establish charities, like soup kitchens, food pantries, and shelters; but that is
because they see a need and nobody is meeting those needs.

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As I said, there is no evidence that this church leader has 'garnished himself' at all with any 'expensive baubles'. Religious leaders who are expected to be neutral must avoid branding. The photoshopping is quite a standard practice. Whatever my religious sympathies, I just do not see an intelligible reason for your hostility.

Why is no one similarly outraged that the Queen of England, the head of the Church of England, has substantially more wealth?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
if he had spent 1 billion on a watch, would that be wrong?

Who said he spent any money at all?

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I don't deny that the watch was photoshopped out (seriously, I don't know how you could think that.) Let me reiterate my points again (it is quite obvious you are not really following). Maybe numbering will appeal to the non-verbal part of your brain.

1. We do not know how the Patriarch is paid. There is absolutely no 'tithe'. Strictly speaking he is not 'paid' at all. He receives a stipend, a kind of living allowance. For all we know this could come from a specific trust of his eparchy and not have any relation to what the laity donate to the church.

2. We do not know whether he was aware of the value of the watch. I do not expect monastics to be expert valuers. Perhaps he should give the watch away (perhaps he has) but, then again, if it were a gift as he claims, it may be extremely impolitic to deny or give away such a gift. He may not even be able to do so.

Did you ever actually leave the the Catholic religion, or just decide not to pay in anymore. Next time you walk around St Peter's take a copy of Africa Today with you.

I rarely gave money to the Catholic Church. I, like most people actually, did not have much money to spare. I no longer identify as Catholic.