Satan Worship

Originally posted by sonhouse
"worshipping" satan is no different and has just the same effect as worshipping your god. You need to be a bit more tolerant of other people's religions.

I am free of such blinders, I am intolerant of ANY religion🙂

Ha, ha. 😀 You want robbie to be tolerant and you are the most intolerant of us all.

Originally posted by mikelom
But Robbie..... there are people who worship trees, rocks and rivers.

Are they blind? Are they non-devout?

Your comment belittles these people, when you write " one would be as well as......", and yet they are genuine in their worship of these sacred things.

Is it, indeed, one rule for you only, and all others fail?

-m.

Are you talking about those liberal democrat tree huggers who don't want a single tree cut down in California and would rather have giant forest fires instead?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i have demonstrated no contempt for people, but have sought to question the
value of a form of worship, a slight underhand there from the buffet king, it had better
not happen again. Third time asking, what is the value of worshipping a stone, a river
or a tree, you have not said.

FMF is a master of the underhand tactic. I am sure he will try it again. It has become part of his character.

Originally posted by sonhouse
I have a buddy (he played chess here for a while, getting to 2200) who is an addict and is in the 12 step program, I think the first step is 'recognizing a higher power', is the way they put it. They said it doesn't matter what you consider your higher power, just recognize there is one. So if your higher power is a tree, what of it? A tree is part of life ...[text shortened]... en airplane because they saw one fly by in WW2. What difference does it make to them? Or you?

Because it violates the greatest of God's commandments.

And God spake all these words, saying, "I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; and shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."

(Exodus 20:1-6 NKJV)

Originally posted by WoodPush
The term can be confused.

There's also a widely practiced brand of "Satanism" that not only doesn't worship Satan, but believe that the devil and other supernatural forces do not exist. Sort of a belligerent atheism mixed with Rand's objectivism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaVeyan_Satanism

I believe this is (or at least was, for a period) far m ifference, regardless - believing that to abandon Christ is to worship the devil, anyway.

That is right. You are either with Christ or against him and you can't serve two masters. Worshipping oneself is worshipping the creature rather than Christ the Creator. That is no different than worshipping Satan, who is a creation of God. For in God's first commandment, He forbid having another god to worship, serve, and bow down to. And if we love God, we will keep His commandments.

Originally posted by RJHinds
That is right. You are either with Christ or against him and you can't serve two masters. Worshipping oneself is worshipping the creature rather than Christ the Creator. That is no different than worshipping Satan, who is a creation of God. For in God's first commandment, He forbid having another god to worship, serve, and bow down to. And if we love God, we will keep His commandments.

So if you love your god with all your heart and you love Satan too, you go to hell?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
if you have any empirical evidence of
the value of worshipping a stone, a tree or a river then please produce it, ... All I have done is to ask for empirical evidence? where is it? can a tree or a
river or a stone instruct you, no, then what is the value of worshipping it, ...!

Disappointing Robbie ... you used to be a fair man. I know the JWs have taken a lot of flak but that does not ecuse this hole you are digging for yourself!

There is no empirical evidence that worshipping any god has any value. (In fact the evidence points to the opposite being true) At least trees and rocks have the advantage of actually existing!

Originally posted by RJHinds
That is right. You are either with Christ or against him and you can't serve two masters. Worshipping oneself is worshipping the creature rather than Christ the Creator. That is no different than worshipping Satan, who is a creation of God. For in God's first commandment, He forbid having another god to worship, serve, and bow down to. And if we love God, we will keep His commandments.

Firstly, when did Christ become the Creator? Sounds like you don't even understand your own religion RJ.

Secondly, rather than speculating what a Satanist is these days why not just look to Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible to understand their creed. They have what they call "Nine Satanic Statements". They are:

1. Satan represents indulgence, instead of abstinence!
2. Satan represents vital existence, instead of spiritual pipe dreams!
3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom, instead of hypocritical self-deceit!
4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates!
5. Satan represents vengeance, instead of turning the other cheek!
6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible, instead of concern for psychic vampires!
7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development," has become the most vicious animal of all!
8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!
9. Satan has been the best friend the church has ever had, as he has kept it in business all these years

Now, while some of these statements are just telling it like it is, overall I find the philosophy of Satanism foolish and selfish. There is too much emphasis on the individual and his/her own selfish needs and desires and less on the overall well being of community. Even though human beings have a tendency to be warlike, selfish, and our own worst enemies I don't think we need to embrace that as a philosophy. I'd much rather personally adopt a religion/spirituality/philosophy that at least tries to aspire to better virtues of honesty, compassion, importance of family, hard work, generosity, optimism, concern for well being of the communities we live in, etc. Satanism, as one can see from their own written creed, seems to work in the opposite direction.

Thirdly, in my 10 years as a practicing heathen (i.e. old norse and germanic religion) and being around many other heathens and other types of pagans I've never seen anyone actually worshipping a rock, tree, or river. Although I do think there tends to be a much greater appreciation of nature and a sense of these things being sacred amongst heathens and pagans than you find in monotheistic religions. But still I've never seen anyone worshipping a rock and I tend to agree with Robbie in that I see no value in doing so. I see the act of worship as reciprocal between humans and gods and that when one worships higher beings they expect something in return. One cannot possibly expect something in return from worshipping a rock. I doubt anyone has ever sacrificed a pig to a rock although they most likely performed such a sacrifice to a god/goddess in what they consider a sacred grove and/or stone altar.

BTW, Robbie the Pentagram you saw was most likely Wiccan than Satanic as there are far more Wiccans in the world today than Satanists but who knows. Personally I think people are making far too big a deal on this thread about Robbie "desecrating" it. I doubt those that used it even cared that much. They were probably more amused than anything.

Originally posted by sonhouse
So if you love your god with all your heart and you love Satan too, you go to hell?

“No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
(Matthew 6:24 NKJV)

Originally posted by Ullr
Firstly, when did Christ become the Creator? Sounds like you don't even understand your own religion RJ.

Secondly, rather than speculating what a Satanist is these days why not just look to Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible to understand their creed. They have what they call "Nine Satanic Statements". They are:

1. Satan represents indulgence, instead of abs ...[text shortened]... se that used it even cared that much. They were probably more amused than anything.

The apostle Paul says of Christ in his letter to the Colossians the following:

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence."

(Colossians 1:16-18 NKJV)

Originally posted by RJHinds
The apostle Paul says of Christ in his letter to the Colossians the following:

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him ...[text shortened]... n from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence."

(Colossians 1:16-18 NKJV)

There are inconsistencies in this passage by itself.

First it says "For by Him all things were created" then later it says "All things were created through Him and for Him". Which is it? Created by Him or through/for Him? I'm just curious. It sounds like Paul was talking in circles. He would have been a good salesman.

Originally posted by Ullr
Personally I think people are making far too big a deal on this thread about Robbie "desecrating" it. I doubt those that used it even cared that much. They were probably more amused than anything.

And good for them if they didn't care too much or were even amused. It's not the point beingdebated here, however. The question has been why did robbie feel his gestures of contempt were justified merely because he does not value what they value nor understand why they value it. I think it's an interesting and pertinent question on a spirituality forum.

Originally posted by FMF
And good for them if they didn't care too much or were even amused. It's not the point beingdebated here, however. The question has been why did robbie feel his gestures of contempt were justified merely because he does not value what they value nor understand why they value it. I think it's an interesting and pertinent question on a spirituality forum.

Fair enough.

Robbie, it would be interesting to read your reply to this.

Originally posted by Ullr
There are inconsistencies in this passage by itself.

First it says "For by Him all things were created" then later it says "All things were created through Him and for Him". Which is it? Created by Him or through/for Him? I'm just curious. It sounds like Paul was talking in circles. He would have been a good salesman.

It is not one or the other it is both. He created all things for His enjoyment and love, therefore, all things were created for Him. When it says "through" him, it means he was the source and means by which all creation from beginnig to end was created. By repeating the idea in a slightly different way, Paul is trying to emphasize Christ's importance as the beginning and end of the creation of God.
For without the Son of God there would be no creation.