Saved Eternally ??

Originally posted by KellyJay
So be clear here, you think someone who is saved and filled with the Spirit cannot or would
not reject God and live a life in the flesh, so that anyone who is living in the flesh was
never really saved, even if they claimed they once where?

No, anyone filled with the spirit can be deceived. They can fall away. God understands they are but dust. It takes renewing of the mind to grow.
But if that person was filled with the spirit and falls away, they are still saved. That is what that verse says me. They will lose any rewards but they will be saved.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I am in no cult but you are welcome to believe and say what you like .. dont really matter. However if you claim the Bible says something then you should be able to back it up.

You said this:

[b]My point is there are good Christian people who can be deceived and go back to their old lives. Satan is crafty and has caused many to stumble. These people h ...[text shortened]... who fall back into their worldly sinful liffestyle... nothing .. its all death and destruction.

Earlier in this thread, in order to defend your doctrinal position, you claimed that there is clear distinction between the following spiritual states; can you therefore explain the difference, in practical terms, between:

- Being saved but not having eternal life. I.e what is one "saved" from?
- Being spiritually reborn and spiritual regeneration ?
- Being spiritually reborn and eternal life ?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
No, anyone filled with the spirit can be deceived. They can fall away. God understands they are but dust. It takes renewing of the mind to grow.
But if that person was filled with the spirit and falls away, they are still saved. That is what that verse says me. They will lose any rewards but they will be saved.

Is that what you think is going on when Jesus tells those that remind Him during judgment
day that they cast out demons in his name and did others things in is name?

Matthew 7:22
Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’

Originally posted by checkbaiter
No, anyone filled with the spirit can be deceived. They can fall away. God understands they are but dust. It takes renewing of the mind to grow.
But if that person was filled with the spirit and falls away, they are still saved. That is what that verse says me. They will lose any rewards but they will be saved.

If you are filled with the Spirit, wouldn't the Holy Spirit remind you about the truth?
Personally, I believe God can and does keep His own, but where I differ with many is who
are His own.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Personally, I believe God can and does keep His own, but where I differ with many is who are His own.

How do you determine in your own mind, who are his own?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Is that what you think is going on when Jesus tells those that remind Him during judgment
day that they cast out demons in his name and did others things in is name?

Matthew 7:22
Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’

The interpretation of this passage hinges not on the expression, "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,'" but on the expression, "He who does the will of My Father."

Jesus did not say that no one who says "Lord, Lord" will enter the kingdom. He said, rather, that not all who say that will enter.

So, who among those who say "Lord, Lord" will enter? Answer: those who do the will of the Father.

What, then, does Jesus mean by the will of the Father and who are those who do it?

One popular view today suggests that by the expression "the will of My Father" Jesus meant a life characterized by obedience to all that the Father has commanded. Thus those who do the will of the Father would be people who live godly, holy lives.

There are several problems with this interpretation. First, God is perfect and one cannot enter His kingdom without becoming absolutely perfect (Isa. 64:6; Gal. 3:6-14; Heb. 10:1-18; James 2:10). Second, one cannot be said to have done the will of the Father unless he does it completely, 100%. To violate even just one of God's commands is to break them all (James 2:10). Third, even if these first two objections were not valid, this view leads to the unbiblical conclusion that no one can ever be sure that he is saved until he dies or is raptured. No one could ever know if he had obeyed enough. Yet the Scriptures are clear that the apostles knew with absolute certainty that they were saved and they wanted their readers to know this as well (Luke 10:20; John 13:10; Rom. 8:31-39; 2 Pet. 1:1; 1 John 2:12-14, 25; 5:13).

There is another view as to what Jesus meant by the expression "the will of My Father." When Jesus spoke of doing the will of the Father to obtain kingdom entrance, He had one act of obedience in mind: believing the gospel. It is God's will that none should perish but that all should come to a change of mind about the gospel (2 Pet. 3:9). When asked the question, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?" Jesus said, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent" (John 6:28-29).

In John 3:36 John is quoted as saying, "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe/obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." The word translated "he who does not believe" in the KJV and the NKJV and "he who does not obey" in the NASV is the verb apeitheo. The leading Greek Lexicon of the New Testament by Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich, and Danker makes a very insightful comment about apeitheo which sheds light on both John 3:36 and our passage, Matthew 7:21-23:

Can you explain these verses?
1 Cor 3:14-15
If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
NKJV

Rom 11:29-30
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 3
NKJV

Phil 1:6-7
6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;
NKJV

Originally posted by checkbaiter
The interpretation of this passage hinges not on the expression, "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,'" but on the expression, "He who does the will of My Father."

Jesus did not say that no one who says "Lord, Lord" will enter the kingdom. He said, rather, that not all who say that will enter.

So, who among those who say "Lord, Lord" will ent ...[text shortened]... He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;
NKJV
[/b]

Just so you know, I do believe that if you are born again, if you are Spirit filled, if you are
walking with the Lord, I do not believe you can be deceived and lose you salvation. I also
don't believe as long as you walking with the Lord you ever will lose it.

That said, if you been enlighten and love your sin more than you love God, if you are
walking in your sin instead of following God, you will be in trouble, but I don't think that will
be because Satan got one over on you, those that do that, do it with their eyes wide open.
They look into the mirror and forget what kind of person they are.

I love the scripture below, and I agree with yours too. Where I'm not happy is for the
reasons I've stated, Christianity has been boiled down to entering into the Kingdom of
God by repeating a few words someone says when they give them the sinners prayer.

Now, if that is Christianity and they hear that living a life of sin is acceptable now you
cannot lose your salvation, where is the need for repentance? So that is why I'd oppose
hearing people talk about once saved always saved, for the sake of those that do need to
drawn to God away from their sins.

2 Peter 1:2-11
2 Grace to you and peace be multiplied in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; 3 seeing that his divine power hath granted unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that called us by his own glory and virtue; 4 whereby he hath granted unto us his precious and exceeding great promises; that through these ye may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in that world by lust. 5 Yea, and for this very cause adding on your part all diligence, in your faith supply virtue; and in your virtue knowledge; 6 and in your knowledge self-control; and in your self-control patience; and in your patience godliness; 7 and in your godliness brotherly kindness; and in your brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, they make you to be not idle nor unfruitful unto the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he that lacketh these things is blind, seeing only what is near, having forgotten the cleansing from his old sins. 10 Wherefore, brethren, give the more diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never stumble: 11 for thus shall be richly supplied unto you the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
The interpretation of this passage hinges not on the expression, "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,'" but on the expression, "He who does the will of My Father."

Jesus did not say that no one who says "Lord, Lord" will enter the kingdom. He said, rather, that not all who say that will enter.

So, who among those who say "Lord, Lord" will ent ...[text shortened]... He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;
NKJV
[/b]

I guess Paul, knowing that false teachers would arise in the last days, who interpret the Bible so that they can continue with sin and justify it as well, made the situation crystal clear:-

What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. (Romans 6:15-22 KJV)

Here is a summary
- Can Christians sin because they are not under the law ? Hell NO .. God is not that stupid to allow that.
- Yielding to sin = obedience to sin = DEATH
- Yielding to God = obedience to God = Righteousness
- Before a knowledge of Christ, Christians are servants of unrighteousness
- After Christ if Christians OBEY FROM THE HEART, then they become servants of righteousness
- The end result of sin is DEATH
- The end result of being obedient to God = HOLINESS & RIGHTEOUSNESS = EVERLASTING LIFE
- Christians get everlasting life in the end after they have proven themselves and demonstrated obedience.

Paul here in one crisp concise statement has destroyed several of your false doctrines:
- that Christians who have Holy Spirit gifts are automatically righteous and/or cannot fall away
- that Christians could live a life of sin and then point to Christ and say "Look I believe in Christ, Christ is righteous therefore Im righteous"
- that Christians will still get eternal life even if they fall away.
- that Christians have eternal life now.

Yes Im in a cult, but Im in good company along with Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, John, Jude .. we are all in the same cult.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I guess Paul, knowing that false teachers would arise in the last days, who interpret the Bible so that they can continue with sin and justify it as well, made the situation crystal clear:-

[i]What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ...[text shortened]... in good company along with Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, John, Jude .. we are all in the same cult.

You take your eyes off God a lot, you realize we are given a lot of promises from God that
promote our salvation due to Him not us correct?

Originally posted by KellyJay
You take your eyes off God a lot, you realize we are given a lot of promises from God that
promote our salvation due to Him not us correct?

I dont know what you mean and how that relates to the topic and my post.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I dont know what you mean and how that relates to the topic and my post.

At least he's not ignoring you 🙂

Originally posted by Rajk999
I dont know what you mean and how that relates to the topic and my post.

Let me ask you this, if you are right with God now and you go through this life will not your
salvation be sure when you stand before God on judgment day?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Let me ask you this, if you are right with God now and you go through this life will not your
salvation be sure when you stand before God on judgment day?

You left out a part. It should read:

...if you are right with God now and you go through this life [continuing to be right with God], will not your salvation be sure when you stand before God on judgment day?

Answer is Yes.

Originally posted by Rajk999
You left out a part. It should read:

[b]...if you are right with God now and you go through this life [continuing to be right with God], will not your salvation be sure when you stand before God on judgment day?

Answer is Yes.[/b]

So when someone who goes through this life like that is saved eternally are they not?

An additional question, will anyone not fitting this description be saved?

Originally posted by KellyJay
So when someone who goes through this life like that is saved eternally are they not?

On the day of judgement that will be revealed.