Originally posted by twhitehead
That is totally false. Many Christians are moral despite their religion, very few are moral because of their religion, and a large proportion are immoral because of their religion.

[b]where as the scientists need reigning in sometimes, so do some christians, but they do less damage when they get things wrong.
You clearly don't know very much histo ...[text shortened]... level ie individuals compete within a species, and species compete with each other.[/b]

The age of the earth is more proof of the fallacy of evil-lution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=9j_lA9eWlFQ

Originally posted by divegeester
Sure the Christians of ancient Rome where so busy stirring up the rabble of rowdy rebels that Constantine decided ...

"you know what Governors, Senate, People of Rome, these Christians are driving us crazy and with all there screaming and dying and stuff - they are making it impossible for us to have quieter life so I'm going to give us all a b ...[text shortened]... ake them cool by adopting their religion. Sorted - now everyone off for a 40 minute snooze."

Constantine promised to legalise christianity to tap a ready source of manpower to aid him in a civil war. "You stop harrassing us and we'll fight for you".

Originally posted by RJHinds
I know some of you may be struggling to understand, but that is why I am here, so you do not remain ignorant.

When I said, "God did not tell us", that was in reply to Kepler's question concerning how God knew the length of time for the first three days. God does not tell us how he knew, but he does tell us how long the days are by the phrase "evening and ...[text shortened]... h Sabbath day.

Very simple, right?

HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!

I thought you had a point there but it does seem that the evening/morning thing is also used to mean 'period of time' within the bible. I found this at http://www.leaderu.com/offices/o_helweg/eve-morn.html:

"Evening and morning" is an idiomatic expression in Semitic languages. Like all idioms, its meaning is nonliteral but clearly understood by native speakers. The phrase "evening and morning" can, like yom, denote a long and indefinite period. The Old Testament itself unambiguously uses the "evening and morning" phrase in just such a way. In Daniel 8 we read the account of Daniel's ram and goat vision and the interpretation given by Gabriel. The vision covers many years; some commentators believe the time has not yet been completed. Daniel 8:26 says, "The vision of the evenings and the mornings that have been given to you is true, but seal up the vision for it concerns the distant future" (RSV). In Hebrew manuscripts, "the evenings and mornings," is not in the plural but in the singular, identical to the expression we find in Genesis 1. Translated literally, the verse would red, "And the vision of the evening and the morning that has been given you" Here we have a clear indication from scriptural usage that this phrase does not demand a 24-hour-day interpretation and can refer to an indefinite epoch.

So, although you have justified your belief using the bible, you have not been successful in showing yours is the only justifiable conclusion. As has been said numerous times, you can find bible interpretations to support any pre-existing belief if you look hard enough.

I particularly liked the last paragraph of that article:

The method and length of time God used to create the heavens and the earth and life cannot be stated with absolute certainty from science, but these are matters for scientific inquiry, not for dogma. If only I could remove from those Christians who struggle with it the sense of threat they feel when presented with the possibility of long days and an old earth. I know it is linked with their supposition that to accept the fossil record and its time scale is to concede the case for a radically materialistic worldview, i.e., nontheistic evolution. But this supposition is false. In fact, if Christians would cease to attack paleontologists and biologists (among others), the researchers themselves would be free to raise more questions about the validity of their theories rather than combining forces to fend off Christian attacks. Let's not interfere with the investigative process. We Christians have everything to gain and nothing to lose from the advance of scientific discovery. For the God who speaks to us through His works of creation is the same God who speaks to us in the words of the Bible.

--- Penguin

Originally posted by Penguin
I thought you had a point there but it does seem that the evening/morning thing is also used to mean 'period of time' within the bible. I found this at http://www.leaderu.com/offices/o_helweg/eve-morn.html:

"Evening and morning" is an idiomatic expression in Semitic languages. Like all idioms, its meaning is nonliteral but clearly understood by native is the same God who speaks to us in the words of the Bible.

--- Penguin

I am sorry that I must disagree with the commentator on the Daniel scripture, but evening and morning means a 24-hour day and although sometimes in prophetic visions, days may represent years, in this case, the evening and morning statement is to make sure the reader does not represent them by years.

In the case of the Genesis account of creation, these days are also numbered, which is also to ensure the reader understands that these are single days and are not to take them as unspecified periods of time. And of course this account in Genesis does not concern a future prophecy, so there is no reason to counsider these 6 days as 6 years anyway. And certainly the Jews to not observe a whole year for their Sabbath day of rest in rememberance of the creation by God. It is just stupidy to suggest that these creation days mean anything other than 24 hour days.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I am sorry that I must disagree with the commentator on the Daniel scripture, but evening and morning means a 24-hour day and although sometimes in prophetic visions, days may represent years, in this case, the evening and morning statement is to make sure the reader does not represent them by years.

In the case of the Genesis account of creation, these d ...[text shortened]... . It is just stupidy to suggest that these creation days mean anything other than 24 hour days.

You do know that the rotation of the earth is slowing ?

Originally posted by OdBod
You do know that the rotation of the earth is slowing ?

So what? 😏

Originally posted by RJHinds
I am sorry that I must disagree with the commentator on the Daniel scripture, but evening and morning means a 24-hour day and although sometimes in prophetic visions, days may represent years, in this case, the evening and morning statement is to make sure the reader does not represent them by years.

In the case of the Genesis account of creation, these d ...[text shortened]... . It is just stupidy to suggest that these creation days mean anything other than 24 hour days.

That's fair enough then, I thought it was a weak argument myself and I am quite happy to concede that it requires a bit of mental gymnastics to reconcile a literal interpretation of Genesis 1 & 2 with evolution.

The difference being that I think the story told by the facts trump that told by Genesis.

--- Penguin.

Originally posted by RJHinds
So what? 😏

5000 years ago your day and night were of shorter duration than today.

Originally posted by Penguin
That's fair enough then, I thought it was a weak argument myself and I am quite happy to concede that it requires a bit of mental gymnastics to reconcile a literal interpretation of Genesis 1 & 2 with evolution.

The difference being that I think the story told by the facts trump that told by Genesis.

--- Penguin.

So you believe evil-lution presents the facts and the Genesis account is fictional. Is that even after seeing the film that presents how evil-lution just takes over?

Evil-lution Just Takes Over

YouTube

Originally posted by RJHinds
I am sorry that I must disagree with the commentator on the Daniel scripture, but evening and morning means a 24-hour day and although sometimes in prophetic visions, days may represent years, in this case, the evening and morning statement is to make sure the reader does not represent them by years.

In the case of the Genesis account of creation, these d ...[text shortened]... . It is just stupidy to suggest that these creation days mean anything other than 24 hour days.

How do you know they were 24 hours and how do you know the hour used was the same length as our hour? Considering that hours, minutes and seconds were a Babylonian invention in comparatively modern times I'd suggest that the day was anything but 24 hours long.

Originally posted by OdBod
5000 years ago your day and night were of shorter duration than today.

That does not make any difference. The evening and morning still made up a day in time. 😏

Originally posted by Kepler
How do you know they were 24 hours and how do you know the hour used was the same length as our hour? Considering that hours, minutes and seconds were a Babylonian invention in comparatively modern times I'd suggest that the day was anything but 24 hours long.

That is irrelevant to the account in Genesis, since hours, minutes, and seconds are not the issue. The day is the important thing and that was to be determined by man through determining the positions of the sun and moon in relation to the Earth in accordance with the word of God. The division of the day into time periods was for the convenience of man.

Originally posted by RJHinds
That is irrelevant to the account in Genesis, since hours, minutes, and seconds are not the issue. The day is the important thing and that was to be determined by man through determining the positions of the sun and moon in relation to the Earth in accordance with the word of God. The division of the day into time periods was for the convenience of man.

But the sun and the moon were not created until day 4, and man not until day 6. It really does not specify how long each day took before day 4. It doesn't really specify the length of any of the days at all.

--- Penguin

Originally posted by RJHinds
That does not make any difference. The evening and morning still made up a day in time. 😏

Your post of 26 Feb 19.47 said "it is stupidity to suggest creation ....... anything other than 24 hour days" . Why do you post statements even you wont standby? you

Originally posted by Penguin
But the sun and the moon were not created until day 4, and man not until day 6. It really does not specify how long each day took before day 4. It doesn't really specify the length of any of the days at all.

--- Penguin

If we remember that in Eden there were no carnivores, (or rather carnivores were vegetarian, if that makes sense), there was no rain before Noah, snakes could talk, people were immortal, etc, then it is hardly a stretch of the imagination that the sun went around the earth once a year, and each 'day' was actually the same as a modern year.
There is simply no good reason to assume a 24 hour day for any day whether day 1, day 7 or day 2000.
Given that many OT characters lived for hundreds of years, it is even possible that days, and years were much shorter.

Also, it is quite probable the earth was flat back then, and the sun went round the earth, not the other way around. After all, genesis clearly talks about a dome over the earth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmament