Separation of church and state in US? Not now

sonhouse

Spirituality

04 Dec '17 19:14

sonhouse
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04 Dec '17 19:142 edits
The new tax law now has a neat little provision, allowing churches to actively support political candidates. What piece of shyte. Republicans=cynical bastards every fukking one.
Now the churches have won that one, how long will it take before evolution is no longer legal to be taught in a science class, only discussing 'intelligent design'. How long will it be legal to say Earth is billions of years old, a class C felony, if you go against the church and the 6000 year old Earth?
vivify
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04 Dec '17 21:52
Originally posted by @sonhouse
The new tax law now has a neat little provision, allowing churches to actively support political candidates. What piece of shyte. Republicans=cynical bastards every fukking one.
Now the churches have won that one, how long will it take before evolution is no longer legal to be taught in a science class, only discussing 'intelligent design'. How long will ...[text shortened]... lions of years old, a class C felony, if you go against the church and the 6000 year old Earth?
Creationism is already taught in Texas public schools. Louisiana and Tennessee both have laws allowing parents to opt out of having their kids taught evolution:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2014/02/opting-out-evolution

To answer your question of "how long"? It's already started.
KellyJay
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05 Dec '17 00:17
Originally posted by @sonhouse
The new tax law now has a neat little provision, allowing churches to actively support political candidates. What piece of shyte. Republicans=cynical bastards every fukking one.
Now the churches have won that one, how long will it take before evolution is no longer legal to be taught in a science class, only discussing 'intelligent design'. How long will ...[text shortened]... lions of years old, a class C felony, if you go against the church and the 6000 year old Earth?
Are you against the state taxing churches? Do you think if you hold a religious belief that
means you cannot actively support political candidates? Do you think that it is okay for
the state to tell churches what they can and cannot talk about? Do you think that not
accepting evolution the same way you do is a crime if you teach it to others?

You seem to be very upset and hateful here, what types of laws do you want to hit those
that disagree with you with?
KellyJay
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05 Dec '17 00:19
Originally posted by @vivify
Creationism is already taught in Texas public schools. Louisiana and Tennessee both have laws allowing parents to opt out of having their kids taught evolution:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2014/02/opting-out-evolution

To answer your question of "how long"? It's already started.
Already started, evolution is the new belief on the block, now you seem to want to suggest
believing in creation is a crime. Are you a thought police officer, do you have a badge, can
you write tickets? You think parents need to be forced to accept the same beliefs you do?
wolfgang59
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05 Dec '17 01:50
Originally posted by @kellyjay
You think parents need to be forced to accept the same beliefs you do?
No ... parents can think what they like.

But children deserve to be taught the truth.
Suzianne
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05 Dec '17 02:181 edit
Originally posted by @sonhouse
The new tax law now has a neat little provision, allowing churches to actively support political candidates. What piece of shyte. Republicans=cynical bastards every fukking one.
Now the churches have won that one, how long will it take before evolution is no longer legal to be taught in a science class, only discussing 'intelligent design'. How long will ...[text shortened]... lions of years old, a class C felony, if you go against the church and the 6000 year old Earth?
I fully agree with you here. Christians must leave government and church separate. This is nothing but a power grab by the Republicans to get even more money for their campaigns. It's on par with the SC deciding that Corporations are people and can give as much money to political campaigns as they want. It's just the logical Act 2 to that bad decision. We're told to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and render unto God what is God's. Mixing the two is an astoundingly bad idea.

Another reason for people to leave the church is all this is.
divegeester
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05 Dec '17 03:05
Can one of you Americans please provide a preci of what’s happened?
KellyJay
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05 Dec '17 03:321 edit
Originally posted by @wolfgang59
No ... parents can think what they like.

But children deserve to be taught the truth.
KellyJay
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05 Dec '17 03:36
Originally posted by @suzianne
I fully agree with you here. Christians must leave government and church separate. This is nothing but a power grab by the Republicans to get even more money for their campaigns. It's on par with the SC deciding that Corporations are people and can give as much money to political campaigns as they want. It's just the logical Act 2 to that bad decision. ...[text shortened]... wo is an astoundingly bad idea.

Another reason for people to leave the church is all this is.
So truth, reality according to the state, who owns the truth that they and only they get to
teach it to kids? There is no way the government and the church will ever be separate
unless you keep them apart by not allowing the state to dictate to the church and the
church to dictate to the state. The State demands it's way, so it will no keep its hands off
of the church.

How do you define the 'church' those that attend worship in the same building or just
beliefs people who are religious have? Slippery slop you are pushing here!
JS357
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05 Dec '17 06:22
Originally posted by @divegeester
Can one of you Americans please provide a preci of what’s happened?
Is the OP inadequate?
JS357
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05 Dec '17 06:311 edit
Originally posted by @kellyjay
So truth, reality according to the state, who owns the truth that they and only they get to
teach it to kids? There is no way the government and the church will ever be separate
unless you keep them apart by not allowing the state to dictate to the church and the
church to dictate to the state. The State demands it's way, so it will no keep its hands of ...[text shortened]... ame building or just
beliefs people who are religious have? Slippery slop you are pushing here!
The slippery slope that has demonstrably been pushed is described in the OP. Understand, the US GOP congress has no interest in deposing organized religion, nor vice versa, as long as religion delivers the votes and congress delivers the “religious liberty.”
Suzianne
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05 Dec '17 12:012 edits
Originally posted by @kellyjay
So truth, reality according to the state, who owns the truth that they and only they get to
teach it to kids? There is no way the government and the church will ever be separate
unless you keep them apart by not allowing the state to dictate to the church and the
church to dictate to the state. The State demands it's way, so it will no keep its hands of ...[text shortened]... ame building or just
beliefs people who are religious have? Slippery slop you are pushing here!
By "the church", I mean whatever the predominant religion in that country is. In the US, it seems to be evangelical "Christianity". In some countries it might be Islam, in others, maybe Roman Catholicism.

In 1802, Thomas Jefferson wrote this, concerning the First Amendment: "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof", thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties."

Since 1791, when the US Constitution was ratified, this "separation of Church and State" has been respected. And now, this Republican Congress, fresh off its success in cramming its "rob from the poor to pay the rich" tax measures down the throats of Americans, wants to give the Church more power over the State. THIS is the "slippery slope" you mention, and this should be avoided at all costs. It comes frighteningly close to establishing a State Religion.
Suzianne
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05 Dec '17 12:09
Originally posted by @js357
The slippery slope that has demonstrably been pushed is described in the OP. Understand, the US GOP congress has no interest in deposing organized religion, nor vice versa, as long as religion delivers the votes and congress delivers the “religious liberty.”
Exactly, what we do not need in this country is a "quid pro quo" between the church and the state.
divegeester
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05 Dec '17 12:111 edit
Originally posted by @js357
Is the OP inadequate?
Yes it is inadequate, as on the surface it just reads like another sonhousiastic rant against religion. I just wondering what tax law it is that been made that he is on about. I could spend a hour googling it but I’m not going to especially if sonhouse can’t provide factual content and at least a link.
sonhouse
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05 Dec '17 12:20
Originally posted by @kellyjay
So truth, reality according to the state, who owns the truth that they and only they get to
teach it to kids? There is no way the government and the church will ever be separate
unless you keep them apart by not allowing the state to dictate to the church and the
church to dictate to the state. The State demands it's way, so it will no keep its hands of ...[text shortened]... ame building or just
beliefs people who are religious have? Slippery slop you are pushing here!
I don't want Christianity to BECOME the government. That is what I am railing against. Islam, the so-called religion of Peace, came out of the gate with a conquering army, forcing conversions or death and Islamic takeover of government.

This devils deal the repubs have made puts the US on the way to Iranization, where Christianity IS the government.

It won't be creationism a crime to be taught in science classes it will be evolution.

And it could become a crime to say Earth is over 6000 years old.

Do you really want that?