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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    22 Feb '05 08:12 / 2 edits
    Since there's a small group of zealots operating in the Debate Forum preaching the "love" that God exhibits in the Bible, I thought it might be instructive for people to post their most Sickening Bible Stories, those that make you "What the ..... was God thinking". Here's one that was discussed in another thread, but it's a gem: Judges 11:29-39

    29Then the Spirit of the LORD was upon Jephthah, and he passed through Gilead and Manasseh and passed on to Mizpah of Gilead, and from Mizpah of Gilead he passed on to the Ammonites. 30And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD and said, "If you will give the Ammonites into my hand, 31then whatever[a] comes out from the doors of my house to meet me when I return in peace from the Ammonites shall be the LORD's, and I will offer it[] up for a burnt offering." 32So Jephthah crossed over to the Ammonites to fight against them, and the LORD gave them into his hand. 33And he struck them from Aroer to the neighborhood of Minnith, twenty cities, and as far as Abel-keramim, with a great blow. So the Ammonites were subdued before the people of Israel.


    34Then Jephthah came to his home at Mizpah. And behold, his daughter came out to meet him with tambourines and with dances. She was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter. 35And as soon as he saw her, he tore his clothes and said, "Alas, my daughter! You have brought me very low, and you have become the cause of great trouble to me. For I have opened my mouth to the LORD, and I cannot take back my vow." 36And she said to him, "My father, you have opened your mouth to the LORD; do to me according to what has gone out of your mouth, now that the LORD has avenged you on your enemies, on the Ammonites." 37So she said to her father, "Let this thing be done for me: leave me alone two months, that I may go up and down on the mountains and weep for my virginity, I and my companions." 38So he said, "Go." Then he sent her away for two months, and she departed, she and her companions, and wept for her virginity on the mountains. 39And at the end of two months, she returned to her father, who did with her according to his vow that he had made.

    To sum up: Jephthah filled with the Spirit of the Lord that makes you want to go out immediately and destroy twenty cities of your neighbors, cuts a deal with God that if our merciful deity will allow him to kill as many Ammonites as possible, when he returns home he will sacrifice to God whatever first comes out of his house. He thinks it's going to be an animal of some sort, but - what a kneeslapper! - it's his only daughter overjoyed to see him! Imagine that scene in a sit com! But hey, a deal's a deal, no breaking of oaths to God and God ain't letting it slide, so after giving the daughter a couple of months to lament that she'll never have children, Dad makes good on the bargain. Daughter is made a "burnt offering" i.e. throat slit and then her body burned. That'll learn 'em not to make oaths, eh?

    If anyone else has their own Sickening Bible Story, please post it for further amusement and instruction in the wacky ways of the Old Testament.
  2. Standard member Darfius
    The Apologist
    22 Feb '05 08:14
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Since there's a small group of zealots operating in the Debate Forum preaching the "love" that God exhibits in the Bible, I thought it might be instructive for people to post their most Sickening Bible Stories, those that make you "What the ..... was God thinking". Here's one that was discussed in another thread, but it's a gem:

    29Then the Spir ...[text shortened]... ckening Bible Story, please post it for further amusment of the wacky ways of the Old Testament.
    First of all, don't protray the Jews as bloodthirsty. The Ammonites wanted to kill them all the time.

    Secondly, for God to disregard the father's vow would be to condone oathbreaking (sin). As I said, God does not view death on earth as bad when it takes you to heaven. It's when you die here and go to hell that grieves him.
  3. Standard member Nemesio
    Ursulakantor
    22 Feb '05 08:23
    Originally posted by Darfius
    Secondly, for God to disregard the father's vow would be to condone oathbreaking (sin). As I said, God does not view death on earth as bad when it takes you to heaven. It's when you die here and go to hell that grieves him.
    So, God condoned human sacrifice as fulfillment of the vow.

    And we all know that Jephthah's daughter didn't go to heaven
    because she didn't believe that Jesus was the Christ.

    Nemesio
  4. Standard member Darfius
    The Apologist
    22 Feb '05 08:29
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    So, God condoned human sacrifice as fulfillment of the vow.

    And we all know that Jephthah's daughter didn't go to heaven
    because she didn't believe that Jesus was the Christ.

    Nemesio
    Why do you think OT saints sacrificed clean animals (mostly lambs)?

    The OT is just one big prophecy pointing towards the Messiah. The OT saints who sacrificed clean animals to atone for their sins are covered in the blood of Christ.

    And two OT saints never died. They will be the two witnesses who preach at the Temple Mount during the tribulation. The ones the antichrist will kill and who will rise up after 3 days of lying in the street.

    Enoch and Elijah.
  5. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    22 Feb '05 08:32
    Originally posted by Darfius
    Why do you think OT saints sacrificed clean animals (mostly lambs)?

    The OT is just one big prophecy pointing towards the Messiah. The OT saints who sacrificed clean animals to atone for their sins are covered in the blood of Christ.

    And two OT saints never died. They will be the two witnesses who preach at the Temple Mount during the tribulation. Th ...[text shortened]... ichrist will kill and who will rise up after 3 days of lying in the street.

    Enoch and Elijah.
    Do you have a Sickening Story about either of them that you could add to this thread? WARNING: Any non-Sickening stories will be immediately alerted as clearly off-topic and I would hope would earn a foum ban.
  6. Standard member Nemesio
    Ursulakantor
    22 Feb '05 08:34
    Originally posted by Darfius
    And two OT saints never died.
    HOW DARE YOU USE THAT FILTHY HERETIC CATHOLIC WORD
    'SAINT!'
  7. Standard member Darfius
    The Apologist
    22 Feb '05 08:35
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    HOW DARE YOU USE THAT FILTHY HERETIC CATHOLIC WORD
    'SAINT!'
    lol! That one made me laugh, Nem.
  8. 22 Feb '05 10:06
    just another clever ploy by those who stitched the bible together, put the fear of god into people about being murdered, raped and tortured if they dont want to be manipulated
  9. 22 Feb '05 10:17
    Originally posted by silver fern
    just another clever ploy by those who stitched the bible together, put the fear of god into people about being murdered, raped and tortured if they dont want to be manipulated

    ... it's all one big conspiracy ...... now, where and when did I hear that before .... erm ...
  10. 22 Feb '05 10:26
    Originally posted by ivanhoe

    ... it's all one big conspiracy ...... now, where and when did I hear that before .... erm ...
    sheesshh another boy scout trying to tote up a goody goody account with the god above
  11. 22 Feb '05 11:24
    Originally posted by Darfius
    The OT is just one big prophecy pointing towards the Messiah.
    A messiah who clearly wasn't what Jesus turned out to be. The OT prophesised messiah is one of power and vengance, as most of the subject matter in the OT is too. Jesus was not accepted by the jews, he does not fulfill the ideas of the messiah laid out in the OT as the jews saw it. Only a handful of cultists believed he was. Lets not forget at that time christianity was not born, it was just a cult of people running around preaching a messiah had come when he had clearly, in the eyes of everyone else whose religion it really was, not. Over the years this cult grew and began to self fulfill those prophecies by writing the NT which is mostly drivel, accounts which contradict each other and generally boost jesus as a messiah when he was in all likelyhood just a man (albeit perhaps a gifted speaker and perhaps a good person), that's all, a man.

    They say that all publicity is good publicity and in terms of PR crucifixion is about as good as it gets.

  12. Standard member genius
    Wayward Soul
    22 Feb '05 11:37 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Starrman
    A messiah who clearly wasn't what Jesus turned out to be. The OT prophesised messiah is one of power and vengance, as most of the subject matter in the OT is too. Jesus was not accepted by the jews, he does not fulfill the ideas of the ...[text shortened]... and in terms of PR crucifixion is about as good as it gets.

    not true! he fulfilled what the prophets said, the jews meerly miss-interpreted what the prohpets said...and a man who can do miracles? who raises people from the dead? who, himself, was riased from the dead?

    also,

    Could you tell a wise man,
    By the way he speaks or spells?
    Is this more important,
    Than the stories that he tells?

    Well then, Mr, you're a better man than I!
  13. Standard member Maustrauser
    Lord Chook
    22 Feb '05 11:45
    How about the fact that the good and loving LORD turned Miriam into a leper for criticizing Moses for marrying an Ethiopian. (NUM 10:12) It's a wonder my typing fingers haven't fallen off given my criticisms of HIM, or doesn't the LORD mind a bit of criticism these days? Perhaps he has turned liberal.
  14. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's about respect
    22 Feb '05 11:45
    http://www.bartleby.com/108/04/31.html#S56
    Numbers 31:1-19


    1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

    2 Avenge the children of Israel of the Mid'i-anites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people.

    3 And Moses spake unto the people, saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, and let them go against the Mid'i-anites, and avenge the LORD of Mid'i-an.

    4 Of every tribe a thousand, throughout all the tribes of Israel, shall ye send to the war.

    5 So there were delivered out of the thousands of Israel, a thousand of every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war.

    6 And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand of every tribe, them and Phin'ehas the son of Ele-a'zar the priest, to the war, with the holy instruments, and the trumpets to blow in his hand.

    7 And they warred against the Mid'i-anites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.

    8 And they slew the kings of Mid'i-an, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Mid'i-an: Ba'laam also the son of Be'or they slew with the sword.

    9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Mid'i-an captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.

    10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.

    11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.

    12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses and Ele-a'zar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.

    13 ¶ And Moses, and Ele-a'zar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.

    14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.

    15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

    16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Ba'laam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Pe'or, Num. 25.1-9 and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.

    17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

    18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

    19 And do ye abide without the camp seven days: whosoever hath killed any person, and whosoever hath touched any slain, purify both yourselves and your captives on the third day, and on the seventh day.


    I wonder how they "purified" the virginal women children that Moses told them to keep for themselves?
  15. Standard member Maustrauser
    Lord Chook
    22 Feb '05 12:13
    And for those who think that animals are the LORD's creatures and he loves them all, he allowed Solomon to slaughter 22,000 bulls and 120,000 sheep at the grand opening of the temple (I Kings 8:63). That's one big BBQ.

    Why don't churches sacrifice animals today at the altar? Doesn't GOD demand blood sacrifices anymore? What made her change her mind?