Originally posted by KellyJaythat people will eventually die any way is certainly not a areason to kill them, nor is they might get sick and die.
What is the age where people do not die on this planet, is there a
cut off age where people are to young or to old? I'm not talking
about when people kill them, but when people die no matter what the cause. What happens to them after they die?
Kelly
Joshua didn't have the children in Jehrico put to the sword to do the little darlings a favor. Killing children is murder
Joshua 8:1 And the LORD said unto Joshua, Fear not, neither be thou dismayed:take all the people of war with thee, and arise, go up to Ai: see, I have given into thy hand the king of Ai, and his people, and his city,and his land: 8:2 And thou shalt do to Ai and her king as thou didst unto Jericho and her king: only the spoil thereof, and the cattle
thereof, shall ye take for a prey unto yourselves: lay thee an ambush
for the city behind it.
and what praytell hadst they done unto Jehrico?
Joshua 6:21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and
woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayYou asked me: but when people die no matter what the cause. What happens to them after they die?
Yes I would, but that isn't the answer to my question either.
Kelly
I answered: I don't know.
How didn't I answer the question? Or I you saying that because you have an answer that you believe is right and I don't, that your answer must be correct? That, of course, is not logically true; if someone asks me what George Washington had for breakfast on July 4, 1776 I would answer "I don't know" which is true. If you said the answer to the question was "A cannonball" your answer would be incorrect; the fact that I don't know the true answer does not make your answer any less false no matter how strongly you believed that George Washington ate a cannonball for breakfast on July 4, 1776.
1 edit
Originally posted by geniusWhat a surprise; the passage doesn't mention the word rape! It doesn't mention the sheep would be sheared or the cattle would be eaten either, but that's what you do with them when you're awarded them as a spoil of war. If you wish to believe that the Israelites saved only the virgins to be servants, go right ahead. If you wish to believe that they took 16,000 virgins, doled them out like property to their heroic warriors and those girls weren't raped, go ahead. Your belief defies how women prisoners who were made spoils of war were treated, defies common sense and is in contradiction to the obvious import of the passage, but hey have fun. I say that the passage is utterly clear and doubt that someone who had just slaughtered children would have toooooooo many moral constraints about raping their property. But believe what you want.
i have read the passage, and it does not mention rape. the slight fact that rape is against the law of moses...they could have been for servants etc. but certainly not for rape.
and okay so the lord didn't tell them to kill everyone, but ...[text shortened]... h them, as it was that that started the whole affair! (numbers 25)
Originally posted by no1marauderbut it wouldn't make sense for them to rape the virgins, as that was pretty much the reason for the battle! you clamied that i hadn't read the passage? well-can i claim that you didn't read either my post or the passage i quoted in it?...😛
What a surprise; the passage doesn't mention the word rape! It doesn't mention the sheep would be sheared or the cattle would be eaten either, but that's what you do with them when you're awarded them as a spoil of war. If you wish to believe that the Israelites saved only the virgins to be servants, go right ahead. If you wish to believe that ...[text shortened]... ld have toooooooo many moral constraints about raping their property. But believe what you want.
1 edit
Originally posted by geniusYour argumant flops around like a dying fish; first, they were going to MARRY (holy wedlock?) the Midianite girls, then Moses disobeyed God by keeping them alive and NOW they wouldn't have raped them because the entire start of their little excursion into mass murder was because a few of the guys had some playtime with some Midianite woman. Is this the last line of "reasoning" you're going to give?
but it wouldn't make sense for them to rape the virgins, as that was pretty much the reason for the battle! you clamied that i hadn't read the passage? well-can i claim that you didn't read either my post or the passage i quoted in it?...😛
Ascertaining the mind of monster God is pretty difficult for me (not being a bloodthirsty lunatic) but I see no contradiction. Numbers 25 referred to intertribal affairs with "unclean" worshipers of another monster God. In Numbers 31, the remaining "clean" virginal girls are given by God himself to our heroes, are to be "purified" somehow (assume by ritual) and thus are now perfectly hunky dory for sexual purposes. The passage clearly state they are to keep the girls for themselves and I see no restrictions on what they are allowed to do with them. Why do you think that a monster God who would have slaughtered children would be so upset about a little (or a lot of rape) by and by? Probably because like most Born Agains you have some puritanical notions about sex and find the idea of rape more creepy than child murder. I'm sure you're monster God's "Chosen People" would not have had such qualms.
Originally posted by no1marauderwell-the slight fact that rape is against there law...and peraps they did marry them? we don't know. but we can be sure that they didn't rape them as it make no sense! the virgins were saved not becasue they were "more clean", but because they had not cause the men to sin. it would be going agaisnt their law, and would mean that the battle would have served no purpose save to kill lots of people.
Your argumant flops around like a dying fish; first, they were going to MARRY (holy wedlock?) the Midianite girls, then Moses disobeyed God by keeping them alive and NOW they wouldn't have raped them because the entire start of their little excursion into mass murder was because a few of the guys had some playtime with some Midianite woman. Is t ...[text shortened]... child murder. I'm sure you're monster God's "Chosen People" would not have had such qualms.
your argument is meerly that "that's how it was done back then", but most people back then walked around the red sea, as opposed to through it...
3 edits
Originally posted by geniusthe virgins were saved not becasue they were "more clean", but because they had not cause the men to sin. it would be going agaisnt their law,
well-the slight fact that rape is against there law...and peraps they did marry them? we don't know. but we can be sure that they didn't rape them as it make no sense! the virgins were saved not becasue they were "more clean", but becaus ...[text shortened]... e back then walked around the red sea, as opposed to through it...
I'm sure the vast majority of Midianite, non-virgin woman had not lain with Israelite men, either so they had not "caused" (intersting choice of words; do you believe that women "cause men to sin" by having sex with them?) them to sin. Monster God's law seems pretty mallable in these matters and I do not believe that a bunch of bloodthirsty conquerors kept 32,000 (I erred with the 16,000 earlier) young girls around to sweep the floors and do the dishes.
and would mean that the battle would have served no purpose save to kill lots of people
NOW you're getting it! Of course, they were all "bad" people according to your monster God right down to the infant boys so slaughtering them was doing fine work for your "loving and merciful" God.
EDIT: And this "maybe they married them" thing; get over it. A forced marriage to the murderers of your family under pain of death is still rape as far as any reasonable definition goes. Or do you suppose it went like this:
Midianite Girl A: I really like Jacob.
Midianite Girl B: But he just chopped your mother's head off and stuck a spear through your baby brother.
Midianite Girl A: I know, but he's so rad cute!!!
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemJudgement can only come towards someone who has a choice,
God can't claim to be 'good' if he won't follow the laws that he imposes on man. If the laws are moral, then why won't God follow them?
Edit - If God is the one who sets the beginning and end of our lives, then those dates are predetermined. If I murder someone, it is therefore not my fault; it is destiny.
at least in my opinion.
I also disagree with your other point, I bind my children to
rules and I do not go by them, like their bed times. God is
not bound by what He places on us unless He binds Himself
to those very rules too.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayThere's a hitch to this: Jesus claimed that "no one is good except God". That implies that God is trying to claim moral superiority over the human race. When he holds the kill record for humans, I don't see how he can make the claim legitimately.
Judgement can only come towards someone who has a choice,
at least in my opinion.
I also disagree with your other point, I bind my children to
rules and I do not go by them, like their bed times. God is
not bound by what He places on us unless He binds Himself
to those very rules too.
Kelly
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemHow would you deal with evil people, Bigg? Please, send God a letter voicing your complaints at how he runs His creation. Be sure to put 3 stamps, Heaven is pretty far.
There's a hitch to this: Jesus claimed that "no one is good except God". That implies that God is trying to claim moral superiority over the human race. When he holds the kill record for humans, I don't see how he can make the claim legitimately.
Honestly, criticizing the being who made you for anything is the height of stupidity. Obviously He has good reasons for doing everything He does. You're an idiot to project American morals (twisted) onto a righteous God. That's just stupid and a purposefull illusion you hide behind to deny what is clear truth.
1 edit
Originally posted by DarfiusHow would you deal with evil people,
How would you deal with evil people, Bigg? Please, send God a letter voicing your complaints at how he runs His creation. Be sure to put 3 stamps, Heaven is pretty far.
Honestly, criticizing the being who made you for anything is the h ...[text shortened]... purposefull illusion you hide behind to deny what is clear truth.
Were the infants that were slaughtered in the Midianite Massacre "evil" people, Darfius? How does an infant manifest evilness sufficient to justify killing it in cold blood? Would you kill an infant child, if your God commanded you to, Darfius?
You people just don't get it: the fact that your Old Testament God is given the attributes of a bloodthirsty lunatic is pretty conclusive proof that he doesn't exist. OT monster God is a projection and a rationalization of the cruelty that the semi-savage ancient Israelites engaged in. We're not "complaining" about his actions; we're telling you that your mythical OT God is little different than Zeus or Baal and just as likely to exist.
You, Darfius, are an obnoxious snotnose; spewing out insults constantly and then hypocritically pretending that you have love and compassion for anybody. You're a petty little man who wants to think that he's going to be included in an exclusive little club; that'll teach all the people who you have a well-deserved feeling of inferiority to. But I know a lot of Christians and I have never seen a single one spew out the hatred that you do and that seems to exude from your every pore. You should try to stop being an intolerant, ignorant bigot before you start "preaching" as your attitude is a disgrace to truly devout Christians.
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemDeath from this life time isn't the end, it is the 2nd death that all
There's a hitch to this: Jesus claimed that "no one is good except God". That implies that God is trying to claim moral superiority over the human race. When he holds the kill record for humans, I don't see how he can make the claim legitimately.
people should worry about. God gives life and takes it away, how
many people you know do that, none? It is His universe!
Kelly