Originally posted by Grampy BobbyBut if that soul later "decides against" God, it will be tortured forever.
At the moment a viable fetus emerges from the womb, God the Holy Spirit imparts the breath of physical life which is temporal and soul life, the immaterial part of mankind, which is designed to have an eternal relationship with God.
So (as I said in another thread) you should be campaigning actively for abortion - just to ensure that you eliminate this possibility, which statistics show is by far the more likely one.
13 Dec 14
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I have ignored (avoided?) this thread so far, but here's my pov for what it's worth.
The word "sin" in the NT (as most Christians here should know) means "missing the mark I.e. not being perfect!
It is NOT primarrily used to describe any action or conduct, but a state of mind. This state is not being connected to the divine, which the Bible (and many other religions) say is not only possible, but in fact the purpose of life.
I will not get drawn into any arguments in Romans 6, 7 and 8, (which are highly technical, and not even understood by Peter!) but rather urge any interested person to look at the entire thrust of Jesus' teachings towards "sinners".
13 Dec 14
Originally posted by CalJust"But if that soul later "decides against" God, it will be tortured forever." CalJust, the Holy Spirit is the Executor of Salvation. At the moment of regeneration [spiritual birth] He supernaturally seals the believer as a member of Christ's Royal Family. No subsequent human decision to "decide against God" can change this family status. The Holy Spirit's work is permanent.
But if that soul later "decides against" God, it will be tortured forever.
So (as I said in another thread) you should be campaigning actively for abortion - just to ensure that you eliminate this possibility, which statistics show is by far the more likely one.
13 Dec 14
Originally posted by CalJustCJ, "missing the mark I.e. not being perfect!" is a given. In case you missed this categorization of sin from page seven:
I have ignored (avoided?) this thread so far, but here's my pov for what it's worth.
The word "sin" in the NT (as most Christians here should know) means "missing the mark I.e. not being perfect!
It is NOT primarrily used to describe any action or conduct, but a state of mind. This state is not being connected to the divine, which the ...[text shortened]... urge any interested person to look at the entire thrust of Jesus' teachings towards "sinners".
"Would you regard any overt personal behaviors which involve other people [such as murder, drunkenness, theft, fornication or adultery]; or covert personal behaviors which often cluster [such as pride, jealously, bitterness, hatred, vindictiveness, implacability, envy, guilt feelings, worry, anxiety, fear or self pity] as sin? Also, what do you consider as the source of sin?"
"Finally, would you regard the overt personal behaviors of communications [speech and written] such as judging, maligning, bullying, gossiping, criticizing and lying sin? "So also the tongue is a small part of the body, and yet it boasts of great things. Behold how great a forest is set aflame by such a small fire! And the tongue is a fire, the very world of iniquity; the tongue is set among our members as that which defiles the entire body, and sets on fire the course of our life..." James 3:5-6" (Pg 2)
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All of us were born physically alive and spiritually dead because of the sin nature. "Therefore, just as through one man [Adam] sin [sin nature] entered the world, and [spiritual] death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned." Romans 5:12 The sin nature resides in the cell structure of our bodies and is passed on genetically by procreation from Adam to the rest of the human race. It is the source of temptation to sin; the source of sin itself is human volition [the decider within our souls]. Every sin nature has many facets [areas of strength and weakness; trends toward asceticism or lasciviousness; and lust patterns]. Since there is nothing we can do to remove it God provided the grace solution: "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." 2 Corinthians 5:21
When Christ was crucified He received the penalty for every sin of the human race: "He Himself bore our sins in His own body on the cross." 1 Peter 2:24 Christ's separation from God the Father during the final three hours at Golgotha satisfied the Justice and Righteousness of God; sin was eliminated as the issue. God's plan reconciled the total depravity of human nature with His Holiness [the integrity of perfect righteousness and justice]. Any member of the human race can be saved from eternal condemnation and have an eternal relationship with God simply by believing in Jesus Christ as Savior."
13 Dec 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyCopy pasting wasn't one of the communication issues you mentioned. My question is a genuine one because I have lost count of how many times you have re-posted the same few sentences ~ over and over and over again ~ and yet you seem averse to actually discussing them. Do you or any of your fellow believers-in-sin in fact "sin" on this forum, in your estimation?
Maybe willfully violating the 11th Commandment: "Thou Shalt Not Copy & Paste."
13 Dec 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyI referred to your post which mentions "the moment a viable feotus is born" and said that "later, that soul may decide against, etc"
"But if that soul later "decides against" God, it will be tortured forever." CalJust, the Holy Spirit is the Executor of Salvation. At the moment of regeneration [spiritual birth] He supernaturally seals the believer as a member of Christ's Royal Family. No subsequent human decision to "decide against God" can change this family status. The Holy Spirit's work is permanent.
You are referring to "the moment of regeneration".
Are you wilfully misunderstanding me, or are you saying that every baby that is born into this world is immediately regenerated, because I am pretty sure you are not saying that.
13 Dec 14
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Originally posted by CalJustMy apology. Misunderstood the point of reference of your reply. "... every baby that is born into this world" is physical alive and spiritually dead. At the point of God Consciousness, the response may be positive ["If there's a God and you're up there, I want to know you"] or negative ["No. I don't really care about God whether He exists or not"]. If positive, God is obligated to provide accurate Gospel information through another Christian. At that point of Gospel Hearing, the person may respond positively ["Yes, I do believe in the person of Jesus Christ as my Saviour"] or with negative volition ["No. Too busy. I'm not interested"]. God is not willing that any should perish; and will graciously wait for such individuals to change their minds.
I referred to your post which mentions "the moment a viable feotus is born" and said that "later, that soul may decide against, etc"
You are referring to "the moment of regeneration".
Are you wilfully misunderstanding me, or are you saying that every baby that is born into this world is immediately regenerated, because I am pretty sure you are not saying that.
13 Dec 14
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Originally posted by FMFIn jest as a pause in the conversation. Personal sin is private matter for all believer in Christ and inappropriate for any public domain whether in churches or online forums. Utilization of 1John 1:9 for restoration of fellowship is the only issue.
Copy pasting wasn't one of the communication issues you mentioned. My question is a genuine one because I have lost count of how many times you have re-posted the same few sentences ~ over and over and over again ~ and yet you seem averse to actually discussing them. Do you or any of your fellow believers-in-sin in fact "sin" on this forum, in your estimation?
13 Dec 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyIt is OK for you to ask that of others?
.... and what personal personal behaviors do you regard as being "immoral"?
But then post;
[i]"Personal sin is private matter for all believer in Christ ... "[i]
when you are asked a similar question!
More of your hypocrisy. 😞
14 Dec 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyYou have been trying to make personal sin an issue in this public domain with this thread, which you started, and when your own question is addressed back at you, you suddenly proclaim it's "inappropriate"? Blimey. Ok then, yourself aside, and without naming names, do you think any fellow Christian believers-in-sin commit "sins" in the way they communicate on this forum?
Personal sin is private matter for all believer in Christ and inappropriate for any public domain whether in churches or online forums.
14 Dec 14
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Originally posted by wolfgang59Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (OP)
It is OK for you to ask that of others?
But then post;
"Personal sin is private matter for all believer in Christ ... "
when you are asked a similar question!
More of your hypocrisy. 😞
Sin
Irrespective of your position on other spirituality topics and issues, what personal behaviors do you regard as "sin"?
Originally posted by stellspalfie (Page 2)
'morality' would be the nearest thing in my world. the difference being, nobody is tortured for eternity for being immoral in mine.
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (Page 2)
.... and what personal behaviors do you regard as being "immoral"?
Originally posted by wolfgang59 (Page 9)
It is OK for you to ask that of others?
But then post;
"Personal sin is private matter for all believer in Christ ... "
when you are asked a similar question!
More of your hypocrisy. 😞
stellspalfie segued from "what personal behaviors do you regard as "sin"?" to morality; my reply attempted a connection.
The thread attempts to focus on identifying and discussing categories. It's not a confessional of individual sins.
14 Dec 14
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Originally posted by Grampy BobbyYou are still missing my point.
or with negative volition ["No. Too busy. I'm not interested"]. God is not willing that any should perish; and will graciously wait for such individuals to change their minds.
Take the following example:
Child A is born and (using your words) says to God "no. Not interested. Too busy" or whatever (there are a million reasons). Even after God "waits graciously" that person groes up, dies unrepentant.
Child B is aborted before being born - or, for that matter dies in childbirth.
Eternally, which one of these is the better off?
14 Dec 14
Originally posted by CalJustAll children having been born [the moment the Holy Spirit imparts physical life and soul life] who die before reaching the age of accountability [God Consciousness] will be in heaven because one of God's attributes is Justice which means He's fair.
You are still missing my point.
Take the following example:
Child A is born and (using your words) says to God "no. Not interested. Too busy" or whatever (there are a million reasons). Even after God "waits graciously" that person groes up, dies unrepentant.
Child B is aborted before being born - or, for that matter dies in childbirth.
Eternally, which one of these is the better off?