Sin

Originally posted by divegeester

You encouraged me to enjoy "the Lords day" today. Today is Sunday.

Today, 12/14/2014 is indeed "Sunday" to most of the Western world.
But it is also "the first day of the week" that the first disciples of Jesus, Jews, believed the Savior resurrected from the dead.

They set aside the first day of the week and began to call it "the Lord's day" meaning the day the Lord rose from the dead.

My well wishing you was not a legal matter. And I could just as cheerfully bid you enjoy the Lord on the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th day of the week as well.

There is nothing in scripture calling Sunday the Lord's day. In fact I believe Saturday is the Jewish sabbath.

There is something scriptural about calling the day after the Sabbath to the Jews, which was to them the first day of the new week, "the Lord's day" if it is done echoing what they did.

If you don't want to refer to this day as "the Lord's Day" like John did, that's fine with me. My conscience is clear that in the habit of the early followers of Jesus, I refer to the first day of the week as the Lord's day.

But you carry on.

I thought you'd never ask.



The early Christians, who were JEWS, began to revere the first day of the new week because it was on that day Jesus rose from the dead. If you're talking about Jewish culture, the believers' Lord, Messiah and Savior rose from the dead on the day after the Sabbath.

John says "Now on the first day of the week, Mary the Magdalene came early to the tomb while it was yet dark and saw the stone taken away." (John 20:1)

The first day of a new week became celebrated by the disciple of Jesus as "the Lord's day".

Now if it offends you that I would say for you, presumably a believer, would enjoy "the Lord's day". I'm sorry.

I do not mean do NOT enjoy the Lord on any OTHER day of the week.
Hopefully as a Christian we would enjoy the Lord on every day. In fact we could echo the praise of the OT saints on any day - "This is the day that the Lord has made. We will rejoice and be glad in it." (Psalm 118:24)


My favorite English translation of the Bible (among many good translations) is the Recovery Version. To be fair to you, it was unfortunate that the King James Version wrote the word Easter into a translation of Acts 12:4.

That, I would concede, is an imposition of latter Christiandom's incorporation of pagan mythology incorrectly into the Greek text.

But "the Lord's day" or "Lord's Day" in Revelation 1:10, I don't think should offend any believer in Jesus Christ.

Footnote 10(2) of the Recovery Version Bible on Rev. 1:10 says

Here the Lord's Day should be the first day of the week, the day the Lord was resurrected (John 20:1). The early church met regularly on this day (Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:2). It was on this day that John was in spirit and saw the visions of God's economy.

Originally posted by sonship

You encouraged me to enjoy "the Lords day" today. Today is Sunday.

Today, 12/14/2014 is indeed "Sunday" to most of the Western world.
But it is also [b]"the first day of the week" that the first disciples of Jesus, Jews, believed the Savior resurrected from the dead.

They set aside the first day of the week and began to call it ...[text shortened]... [/b]. It was on this day that John was in spirit and saw the visions of God's economy. [/quote][/b]

Today, Sunday, is not the "Lord's day".

Originally posted by divegeester
Today, Sunday, is not the "Lord's day".

From Wiki. I think this is what your beef may be about -

During the Middle Ages, Sunday worship became associated with Sabbatarian (rest) practices. Some Protestants today (particularly those theologically descended from the Puritans) regard Sunday as Christian Sabbath, a practice known as first-day Sabbatarianism. (Some Christian groups hold that the term "Lord's Day" can only properly refer to seventh-day Sabbath or Saturday.)

First I wrote "the Lord's day" and like a bull seeing red, you saw in your mind "Sunday", which I didn't write.

I suspect you also saw "Sabbath". But the first day of the week, the EIGHTH day the day after the REST on the Jewish Sabbath (the seventh day God rested on creation week) was when Jesus rose.
It is to many of us "the Lord's day".

Wow, what grief one gets by bidding someone to enjoy the day of the week Jesus rose from the dead. You would have thought that I had wished you "A Merry Christmas" or something !

Do you have any problem with me saying, "Divegeester, Praise the Lord." ?

Originally posted by sonship
Do you have any problem with me saying, "Divegeester, Praise the Lord." ?

No, I have a problem with you being incorrect when debating with me and trying to make out that me picking you up on it is in some way me being pedantic. You're just wrong, Sunday is not the "Lord's day", get over it.

Originally posted by divegeester
Today, Sunday, is not the "Lord's day".

Care to elaborate on this, instead of proclaiming something to be true without any back up?

RJH claims the world is 6,000 years old, too. That doesn't mean it is.

How about your reasons for saying so? Or would that be too much to ask?

Debate is usually a bit more than just saying no it isn't.

Originally posted by divegeester
You know who else uses "LOL" as a prefix/suffix in argumentation, don't you?

Roughly 25-60% of online Americans (probably a conservative estimate)? Is that your point here?

My point is that it's not exactly a 'signature' move.

Originally posted by divegeester
No, I have a problem with you being incorrect when debating with me and trying to make out that me picking you up on it is in some way me being pedantic. You're just wrong, Sunday is not the "Lord's day", get over it.

You be an angry man. For someone who hates hell you sure raise enough of it.

Tell me all about the first day of the week (the day after the seventh day Sabbath) not being called "the Lord's day" by the first century disciples of Jesus.

Early Christian quotations concerning the 8th day or the Lord's day (pagan Sunday). This is not an endorsement of all things said and done by these people, only evidence of the continued practice of recognizing the Lord's day as the first day of the week (pagan Sunday)

107AD IGNATIUS: let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days of the week. (Ignatius, Epistle to the Magnesians, chp 9. Ante-Nicene Fathers , vol. 1, pg. 62-63.)

130AD BARNABAS: Moreover God says to the Jews, 'Your new moons and Sabbaths 1 cannot endure.' You see how he says, 'The present Sabbaths are not acceptable to me, but the Sabbath which I have made in which, when I have rested [heaven: Heb 4] from all things, I will make the beginning of the eighth day which is the beginning of another world.' Wherefore we Christians keep the eighth day for joy, on which also Jesus arose from the dead and when he appeared ascended into heaven. (15:8f, The Epistle of Barnabas, 100 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers , vol. 1, pg. 147)

150AD JUSTIN: But Sunday is the day on which we hold our common assembly, because it is the first day of the week and Jesus our saviour on the same day rose from the dead. (First apology of Justin, Ch 68)

150AD JUSTIN: And on the day called Sunday there is a gathering together in the same place of all who live in a city or a rural district. ... We all make our assembly in common on the day of the Sun, since it is the first day, on which God changed the darkness and matter and made the world, and Jesus Christ our Savior arose from the dead on the same day. For they crucified him on the day before Saturn's day, and on the day after (which is the day of the Sun the appeared to his apostles and taught his disciples these things. (Apology, 1, 67:1-3, 7; First Apology, 145 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers , Vol. 1, pg. 186)

190AD CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA: He does the commandment according to the Gospel and keeps the Lord's day, whenever he puts away an evil mind . . . glorifying the Lord's resurrection in himself. (Vii.xii.76.4)

200AD TERTULLIAN: Others . . . suppose that the sun is the god of the Christians, because it is well-known that we regard Sunday as a day of joy. (To the Nations 1: 133)

225 AD The Didascalia "The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the Holy Scriptures, and the oblation, because on the first day of the week our Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with the angels of heaven" (Didascalia 2).

300AD EUSEBIUS: [The Ebionites] were accustomed to observe the Sabbath and other Jewish customs but on the Lord's days to celebrate the same practices as we in remembrance of the resurrection of the Savior. (Church History Ill.xxvii.5)

300 AD Eusebius of Caesarea "The day of his [Christ's] light . . . was the day of his resurrection from the dead, which they say, as being the one and only truly holy day and the Lord's day (Proof of the Gospel 4:16:186).

350 AD APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTIONS: Be not careless of yourselves, neither deprive your Saviour of His own members, neither divide His body nor disperse His members, neither prefer the occasions of this life to the word of God; but assemble yourselves together every day, morning and evening, singing psalms and praying in the Lord's house: in the morning saying the sixty-second Psalm, and in the evening the hundred and fortieth, but principally on the Sabbath-day. And on the day of our Lord's resurrection, which is the Lord's day, meet more diligently, sending praise to God that made the universe by Jesus, and sent Him to us, and condescended to let Him suffer, and raised Him from the dead. Otherwise what apology will he make to God who does not assemble on that day to hear the saving word concerning the resurrection, on which we pray thrice standing in memory of Him who arose in three days, in which is performed the reading of the prophets, the preaching of the Gospel, the oblation of the sacrifice, the gift of the holy food? (Constitutions of the Holy Apostles, book 2)

http://www.bible.ca/7-lords-day.htm

Originally posted by sonship
You be an angry man. For someone who hates hell you sure raise enough of it.

You often try to attribute disagreement with you to some sort of emotional 'problem' or 'motivation' on your interlocutor's part. It's interesting to witness you do this time and time again. When and where did you pick up this rhetorical tool? Is it an imitation-of-Jesus type thing, would you say? Several prominent Christians here use it repeatedly; Grampy Bobby starts whole threads in an effort to land smeary cuffs of this kind on the chins of dissenters and critics . Your conversations with people are often strewn with instances of you using this poison-the-well device.

Originally posted by divegeester
No, I have a problem with you being incorrect when debating with me and trying to make out that me picking you up on it is in some way me being pedantic. You're just wrong, Sunday is not the "Lord's day", get over it.

Are you going to tell us about it or just whistle Dixie ?

Originally posted by sonship
Are you going to tell us about it or just whistle Dixie ?

Sorry.

You were saying to me that you didn't feel like arguing on the Lord's Day and that you had some teaching to do. I felt you were being a little sanctimonious using the "Lord's Day" as sort of being about the fray and not allowing yourself to be sullied but the filth of being here etc. It's how you frequently come across in my opinion. Anyway I picked up on this and pointed out that Sunday is a pagan day of Sun worship and not even in alignment with the Jewish Sabbath. I have no issue with you or anyone else holding a particular day as a "Sabbath" or as Paul said "holding Moons & Sabbaths" as special.

Originally posted by FMF
You often try to attribute disagreement with you to some sort of emotional 'problem' or 'motivation' on your interlocutor's part. It's interesting to witness you do this time and time again. When and where did you pick up this rhetorical tool? Is it an imitation-of-Jesus type thing, would you say? Several prominent Christians here use it repeatedly; Grampy Bobby ...[text shortened]... versations with people are often strewn with instances of you using this poison-the-well device.

Are you talking to me or to yourself?

Originally posted by divegeester
Are you talking to me or to yourself?

Er... sonship. 😉

Originally posted by sonship
Early Christian quotations concerning the 8th day or the Lord's day (pagan Sunday). This is not an endorsement of all things said and done by these people, only evidence of the continued practice of recognizing the Lord's day as the first day of the week (pagan Sunday)

[b] 107AD IGNATIUS: let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's Day a ...[text shortened]... (Constitutions of the Holy Apostles, book 2)

http://www.bible.ca/7-lords-day.htm[/b]

These are not scripture.

As I said I have no issue with you wishing to lean on tradition of men to guide your religious calendar; just don't use it as an excuse to not "argue" on what you hold as the Lord's Day. If you are that religious about it, then i suggest you should not be here on Sunday's but devoting yourself to whatever religious sacraments it is you do on your Lord's Day.

Originally posted by FMF
Er... sonship. 😉

ha! sorry, it's 4 AM here and I've been awake 3 hours :-(

I read that as a sonship post to me but replying to himself - gosh I'm tired...