1. Standard memberWulebgr
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    03 Oct '09 13:56
    One of the strongest statements of the human condition ever penned came from a sermon delivered in 1741 in Enfield, Connecticut.


    The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire; he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours. You have offended him infinitely more than ever a stubborn rebel did his prince; and yet it is nothing but his hand that holds you from falling into the fire every moment. It is to be ascribed to nothing else, that you did not go to hell the last night; that you were suffered to awake again in this world, after you closed your eyes to sleep. And there is no other reason to be given, why you have not dropped into hell since you arose in the morning, but that God's hand has held you up. There is no other reason to be given why you have not gone to hell, since you have sat here in the house of God, provoking his pure eyes by your sinful wicked manner of attending his solemn worship. Yea, there is nothing else that is to be given as a reason why you do not this very moment drop down into hell.
    Jonathan Edwards
  2. Donationrwingett
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    03 Oct '09 14:13
    Originally posted by Wulebgr
    One of the strongest statements of the human condition ever penned came from a sermon delivered in 1741 in Enfield, Connecticut.


    The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of ...[text shortened]... be given as a reason why you do not this very moment drop down into hell.
    Jonathan Edwards
    Alas, it seems to be part of the human condition for too many of us to subscribe to such self-loathing garbage.
  3. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    03 Oct '09 22:29
    Originally posted by Wulebgr
    One of the strongest statements of the human condition ever penned came from a sermon delivered in 1741 in Enfield, Connecticut.


    The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of ...[text shortened]... be given as a reason why you do not this very moment drop down into hell.
    Jonathan Edwards
    Do you sincerly believe in 'hell'?
    Think about it....
  4. Standard memberKellyJay
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    04 Oct '09 00:52
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Alas, it seems to be part of the human condition for too many of us to subscribe to such self-loathing garbage.
    Self-loathing, arrogance, pride, denial, self-justification, and the list
    goes on when speaking about the human condition. When comparing
    man to man we can see faults without question, when comparing man
    to God, what do you think man’s outcome will be?
    Kelly
  5. Donationrwingett
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    04 Oct '09 03:34
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Self-loathing, arrogance, pride, denial, self-justification, and the list
    goes on when speaking about the human condition. When comparing
    man to man we can see faults without question, when comparing man
    to God, what do you think man’s outcome will be?
    Kelly
    Well...they're both guilty of genocide and murder. But since god is allegedly omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent, we should expect better behavior out of him.
  6. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    04 Oct '09 05:41
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Well...they're both guilty of genocide and murder. But since god is allegedly omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent, we should expect better behavior out of him.
    Yes the christian notion of God (the white-bearded male sitting on the clouds) seems to cause more problems and raise more moral dillemas than actually fixing anything. Hmmm...
  7. Standard memberWulebgr
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    04 Oct '09 13:49
    I think that Jonathan Edwards' image of G-d as a young boy holding an arachnid over the fire is stunning.
  8. Standard memberKellyJay
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    04 Oct '09 14:01
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Well...they're both guilty of genocide and murder. But since god is allegedly omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent, we should expect better behavior out of him.
    Murder, you think God can do that?
    Kelly
  9. Donationrwingett
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    04 Oct '09 14:19
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Murder, you think God can do that?
    Kelly
    If the bible can be trusted, it seems quite clear. He personally and intentionally killed multitudes of people.
  10. Standard memberWulebgr
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    04 Oct '09 15:22
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Murder, you think God can do that?
    Kelly
    No. If God does it, it is not murder.
  11. Standard memberKellyJay
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    04 Oct '09 17:24
    Originally posted by rwingett
    If the bible can be trusted, it seems quite clear. He personally and intentionally killed multitudes of people.
    You did not answer my question, can God murder?
    Kelly
  12. Standard memberKellyJay
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    04 Oct '09 17:25
    Originally posted by Wulebgr
    No. If God does it, it is not murder.
    Thank you for answering what was being asked.
    Kelly
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    04 Oct '09 17:27
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Murder, you think God can do that?
    Kelly
    If murder is to be defined as the premeditated killing of any human being, then the answer is obviously Yes.
  14. Standard memberKellyJay
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    04 Oct '09 17:32
    Originally posted by Badwater
    If murder is to be defined as the premeditated killing of any human being, then the answer is obviously Yes.
    Well let us define murder of killing any life and eating a carrot is
    now murder. Do police murder shooting back when someone is
    shooting at them or other people as they are trying to defend, are our
    arm forces murdering when they shoot at enemy forces shooting at
    them, if we define it by the limited scope you used, they are?
    Kelly
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    04 Oct '09 21:39
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Well let us define murder of killing any life and eating a carrot is
    now murder. Do police murder shooting back when someone is
    shooting at them or other people as they are trying to defend, are our
    arm forces murdering when they shoot at enemy forces shooting at
    them, if we define it by the limited scope you used, they are?
    Kelly
    That's a strawman. You should know better.
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