Originally posted by robbie carrobieembryo in this passage, aside from a bad translation, is a metaphor, not literal. Think of the embryo of a chess combination, for instance.
i think this passage clearly puts things in context
(Psalm 139:13-16) . . .For you yourself produced my kidneys; You kept me screened off in the belly of my mother. I shall laud you because in a fear-inspiring way I am wonderfully made. Your works are wonderful, As my soul is very well aware. My bones were not hidden from you When I was made in ...[text shortened]... in writing, As regards the days when they were formed And there was not yet one among them.[/b]
Originally posted by WulebgrThat portion of the sermon reminds me of this scripture.
Originally posted by Wulebgr
[b]One of the strongest statements of the human condition ever penned came from a sermon delivered in 1741 in Enfield, Connecticut.
The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns l ...[text shortened]... iven as a reason why you do not this very moment drop down into hell.
Jonathan Edwards[/b]
Kelly
John 3:17-21 NLT
17 God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him.
18 “There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son. 19 And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. 20 All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. 21 But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants.”
Originally posted by Wulebgris a metaphor????, i think not, considering the context is very clear and specific in that David, under inspiration is clearly talking about prenatal life in the womb and how wonderful the embryonic development was. what's up , is there another rather discomforting reference to the wonderful process of the formation of a human life?
embryo in this passage, aside from a bad translation, is a metaphor, not literal. Think of the embryo of a chess combination, for instance.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI read several different translations, which one is that? Here is the
i think this passage clearly puts things in context
(Psalm 139:13-16) . . .For you yourself produced my kidneys; You kept me screened off in the belly of my mother. I shall laud you because in a fear-inspiring way I am wonderfully made. Your works are wonderful, As my soul is very well aware. My bones were not hidden from you When I was made in ...[text shortened]... in writing, As regards the days when they were formed And there was not yet one among them.[/b]
NLT version of the same verse.
Psalm 139 (New Living Translation)
13 You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body
and knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 Thank you for making me so wonderfully complex!
Your workmanship is marvelous—how well I know it.
15 You watched me as I was being formed in utter seclusion,
as I was woven together in the dark of the womb.
16 You saw me before I was born.
Every day of my life was recorded in your book.
Every moment was laid out
before a single day had passed.
Originally posted by KellyJayThe new world translation of the Holy scriptures, you can read it online here if ever you need to compare.
I read several different translations, which one is that? Here is the
NLT version of the same verse.
Psalm 139 (New Living Translation)
13 You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body
and knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 Thank you for making me so wonderfully complex!
Your workmanship is marvelous—how well I know it.
15 ...[text shortened]... was recorded in your book.
Every moment was laid out
before a single day had passed.
http://www.watchtower.org/bible/toc.htm
🙂
Originally posted by KellyJayBut that is a very creative interpretation and only one of many possible interpretations - and certainly not the default interpretation that most native English speakers would make. And it doesn't address SwissGambits query that you were replying to.
Jeremiah the prophet was known by God, God knew that prophet all
the way through the prophets life, which included the time spent in
the womb.
Kelly
If we are going to get literal and not take it as a somewhat poetic verse then one must declare that the prophet existed before conception. The question then is "was the prophet alive before conception?" If not, then knowledge does not imply life and your declaration that the prophet was alive in the womb is equally unfounded.
Originally posted by twhiteheadI've always said that human life goes through stages, you can
But that is a very creative interpretation and only one of many possible interpretations - and certainly not the default interpretation that most native English speakers would make. And it doesn't address SwissGambits query that you were replying to.
If we are going to get literal and not take it as a somewhat poetic verse then one must declare that the ...[text shortened]... imply life and your declaration that the prophet was alive in the womb is equally unfounded.
have adults, teenagers, toddlers, infants, fetus, and so on to name
a few. You kill anyone in any stage that life is ended.
Kelly
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSo the "depths of the earth" is literal?
is a metaphor????, i think not, considering the context is very clear and specific in that David, under inspiration is clearly talking about prenatal life in the womb and how wonderful the embryonic development was. what's up , is there another rather discomforting reference to the wonderful process of the formation of a human life?
The context makes clear that metaphors are at play, or really really bad science.
Originally posted by twhiteheadAlive before conception, I don't know, not in this life I'd say he was
But that is a very creative interpretation and only one of many possible interpretations - and certainly not the default interpretation that most native English speakers would make. And it doesn't address SwissGambits query that you were replying to.
If we are going to get literal and not take it as a somewhat poetic verse then one must declare that the ...[text shortened]... imply life and your declaration that the prophet was alive in the womb is equally unfounded.
not here yet.
Kelly
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYes, 'wonderfully made', but again, this verse does not tell me where life begins. I read this verse and I see it describing construction of a life - the embryo in the womb. Yes, at some point, the construction results in a person with rights, etc. - but when, exactly?
i think this passage clearly puts things in context
(Psalm 139:13-16) . . .For you yourself produced my kidneys; You kept me screened off in the belly of my mother. I shall laud you because in a fear-inspiring way I am wonderfully made. Your works are wonderful, As my soul is very well aware. My bones were not hidden from you When I was made in ...[text shortened]... in writing, As regards the days when they were formed And there was not yet one among them.[/b]
Originally posted by KellyJayAnd apparently you can have 'preconception'. The verse in question does neither supports nor contradicts your 'stages' claims, nor your claims regarding a fetus.
I've always said that human life goes through stages, you can
have adults, teenagers, toddlers, infants, fetus, and so on to name
a few. You kill anyone in any stage that life is ended.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJaySo how could God have known him before he was here? Surely it must be as I have already said, a claim that God knows the future, or carefully plans it.
Alive before conception, I don't know, not in this life I'd say he was
not here yet.
Kelly
Nobody here is disputing that a fetus results in a human life, or that termination of a fetus results in a potential human life not existing at some future date, however, one can easily take that argument further and apply it to the eggs in a womans body, her womb, sperm etc. The key issue is really why killing life is wrong, and whether that reason applies to a fetus. If it is wrong because God says so, then we have to know what God is referring to in the various relevant verses (the verse in question here does not answer it). If it is wrong because of something to do with terminating a conscious being, then an early stage fetus clearly does not apply.