So How Narrow is the Way?

Originally posted by @divegeester

Are the words of Jesus in the bible any more valid and authoritative than the words of John in revelation or of Isaiah in the OT?

If not then why do you keep going on about “the words of Jesus”; you sound like thinkofone...

Let me know I’d be interested in this one...

I agree that both Isaiah and John spoke the word of God under inspiration.

But the Word became flesh in Jesus Christ. The Bible does not say that that "the Word became flesh" in the birth of Isaiah or John.

The CENTER of the Bible's revelation is Jesus Christ. Isaiah and John are servants of God for certain. But the Bible does not say that all the promises of God find their Yes in Isaiah or John.

The Gospel of John says that Isaiah SAW Christ's glory and wrote of Him, not the other way around.

The book of Hebrews says God spoke in many ways to the fathers in the prophets. But in the last of these days spoke to us in the Son. It didn't say that in the past God spoke to us in the Son but now in the last of these days speaks to us in isaiah or in John.


On the Mount of Transfiguration God spoke "This is My beloved Son. Hear Him" concerning Jesus. God did not say "This is Isaiah. Hear him" or "This here is the apostle John. Hear him."

Jesus said "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away." . Yes I agree that Isaiah spoke God's word and John did also. But such a superlative annoucement was not made about either of them as this.

The book of Revelation shows Christ in His second coming having the name of "the Word of God". Yes the prophets and the apostles spoke the word of God. But it doesn't say at the end of the age they return as "the Word of God.".

Isaiah and John ever point to Christ, not the other way around so much.

Isaiah and John need Christ as their Lord and Savior. It is not the other way around.

The last judgment on mankind will be conducted by Jesus Christ. It is not that either Isaiah or John will have that task.

At the end of history the city New Jerusalem the Wife of the Lamb, marries Christ. John and Isaiah are constituents of the holy city. Neither Isaiah or John are called her Bridegroom.

The Bible says the last Adam became a life giving Spirit. That last Adam is Christ. It doesn't say that either Isaiah or John became a life giving Spirit.

Hundreds of more reasons could probably be found that as important as Isaiah and John are, they are nothing without Christ who is God incarnate.

Originally posted by @divegeester
What is sad SecondSon, is that you can’t see past my defence of the moral reputation of my Lord, to the militant supporter of the gospel Jesus Christ that I am.

What is sad divegeester, is that you sidestepped the point of my post, and made a defense as an excuse to ignore the fact that the Word of God doesn't need you to defend itself.

The moral reputation of Jesus Christ goes without saying. That one should find the doctrine of eternal punishment so repugnant that one would equate it with the moral reputation of OUR LORD just shows how desperate is ones understanding of the Holiness of God.

But that's ok because I barely grasp it either.

Originally posted by @secondson
What is sad divegeester, is that you sidestepped the point of my post, and made a defense as an excuse to ignore the fact that the Word of God doesn't need you to defend itself.

The moral reputation of Jesus Christ goes without saying. That one should find the doctrine of eternal punishment so repugnant that one would equate it with the moral reputatio ...[text shortened]... is ones understanding of the Holiness of God.

But that's ok because I barely grasp it either.

This passage is Revelation is particularly troublesome:

"...that person will also drink of the wine of God’s anger that has been mixed undiluted in the cup of his wrath, and he will be tortured with fire and sulfur in front of the holy angels and in front of the Lamb."

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
This passage is Revelation is particularly troublesome:

"...that person will also drink of the wine of God’s anger that has been mixed undiluted in the cup of his wrath, and he will be tortured with fire and sulfur in front of the holy angels and in front of the Lamb."

Revelation 14:9-11
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

If you would sir, please describe what you mean by "particularly troublesome".

Originally posted by @secondson
Revelation 14:9-11
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in t ...[text shortened]... k of his name.

If you would sir, please describe what you mean by "particularly troublesome".

Why the need for torment? And why is Jesus present to observe it?

For what purpose?! (Please don't say 'justice.' )

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Why the need for torment? And why is Jesus present to observe it?

For what purpose?! (Please don't say 'justice.' )

I think it says that it will be done in His presence.

The effect the verse has on me is that they are totally defeated and Jesus the Lamb, the Redeemer who they have hated, tormenting His faithful followers, will still be around.

It is Divegeester who sensationalizes that point that Christ is enjoying intently gazing at their torment.

He prevails, He remains undefeated, He remains victorious and they are defeated to the uttermost in His presence and in the presence of the holy angels.

Originally posted by @sonship
I think it says that it will be done in His presence.

The effect the verse has on me is that they are totally defeated and Jesus the Lamb, the Redeemer who they have hated, tormenting His faithful followers, will still be around.

It is Divegeester who sensationalizes that point that Christ is enjoying intently gazing at their torment.

He preva ...[text shortened]... s and they are defeated to the uttermost in His presence and in the presence of the holy angels.

Do you know of anyone, any organisation, any group, any religious sect that fall into this category of people?

...who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. ..

Who is the beast? You think you know? Or is it all a bunch of nonsensical guesswork?

Originally posted by @secondson
You have offended all the Christians in this forum by sinning against them with your name calling, personal insults, accusations and verbal attacks.

The definition of devil is the accuser of the brethren.

Originally posted by @whodey
The definition of devil is the accuser of the brethren.

In which dictionary sir?

Originally posted by @whodey
The definition of devil is the accuser of the brethren.

Tell your pastor that the devil is described by Jesus as follows :

The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. (Matthew 13:38-39 KJV)

Your church are brethren of the Wicked One, Satan who preaches and sows false doctrines and lead men to their deaths and eternal condemnation. Your churches preach a load of false doctrines the chief of which are:
- that it is Ok to sin
- that nobody can be righteous
- that good works are not required
- that Jesus condemned good works
- that God loves sinners and forgives all sins

Jesus said in the end,

.. the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 13:49-50 KJV)

That is what the DEVIL does and what fate awaits the devil acdording to Jesus

Originally posted by @rajk999
Do you know of anyone, any organisation, any group, any religious sect that fall into this category of people?

...who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. ..

Who is the beast? You think you know? Or is it all a bunch of nonsensical guesswork?

You know, for all the worship you do of the words on the pages of the Bible, you love to deny the ones that don't fit your narrow world view.

Maybe if you actually got yourself to a church and learned something, you wouldn't be here on a message forum asking stupid questions.

Originally posted by @suzianne
You know, for all the worship you do of the words on the pages of the Bible, you love to deny the ones that don't fit your narrow world view.

Maybe if you actually got yourself to a church and learned something, you wouldn't be here on a message forum asking stupid questions.

Oh .. you want me to get smart like you, sonship, second son, whodey, KJ etc ?

No thanks. I want to stay stupid.

Originally posted by @rajk999
Oh .. you want me to get smart like you, sonship, second son, whodey, KJ etc ?

No thanks. I want to stay stupid.

People like you will be first in line to take the mark, no doubt.

Will yours come with a tally to show how many Christians you've turned in?

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Why the need for torment? And why is Jesus present to observe it?

For what purpose?! (Please don't say 'justice.' )

Why do you stay with your wife, don't just say love. LOL

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Why do you stay with your wife, don't just say love. LOL

Her waffles.

😏