01 Jul 18
Originally posted by @sonshipDo you equate 'torment' with death or punishment?
In the vernacular hell is a place of punishment.
Biblically speaking hell is just the place of death, the place of the departed immaterial part of man = Hades or Sheol ( OT ).
I mean the scope of the word in the Bible is larger than just the place of punishment.
David the patriarch and believer died and went to Hades too.
[b] (Acts 2:27; Psalm 1 ...[text shortened]... n and vanacular usage has made hell mean the place of punishment after deatth of the unredeemed.
01 Jul 18
3 edits
Originally posted by @rajk999As I pointed out to you earlier, the word hell unlike some other words had several different
If hell is a place of torment then explain this verse
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:14 KJV)
meanings that were all translated into one word. So the end of Hell was also cast into
the lake of fire which has also been translated into the word Hell. No need for either of them
death or Hell once evil was completely dealt with.
01 Jul 18
Originally posted by @kellyjaySo hell is not necessarily always a place of torment.
As I pointed out to you earlier, the word hell unlike some other words had several different
meanings that were all translated into one word. So the end of Hell was also cast into
the lake of fire which has also been translated into the word Hell. No need for either of them
death or Hell once evil was completely dealt with.
Originally posted by @rajk999Bribe you admitted you changed the meaning.
Give me an example of if or when I changed the context
You ignore Jesus' words:
From those that deny Him, He will deny before the Father.
The works doctrine you carry in spite of so many text telling you it is not by works we are
saved, but that when saved we will do works.
2 Timothy 1:9
who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,
Titus 3:5
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
Romans 3:27
Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.
Romans 4:2
For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
Ephesians 2:9
not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Just to name a few.
03 Jul 18
Originally posted by @kellyjayThe context of the word bribe is this
Bribe you admitted you changed the meaning.
You ignore Jesus' words:
From those that deny Him, He will deny before the Father.
The works doctrine you carry in spite of so many text telling you it is not by works we are
saved, but that when saved we will do works.
2 Timothy 1:9
who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our wor ...[text shortened]... good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Just to name a few.
..Can we do anything to make Him act one way or another, can we bribe Him, can we do enough good things to atone for the wicked things we do?
The bribe in this case is doing good works. Nothing is evil about good works. So my answer is Yes God is pleased with good works.
Saved is not eternal life. People are saved by the death of Christ. Eternal life is for those who do good works and live righteously.
03 Jul 18
3 edits
Originally posted by @rajk999...can we do enough good things to atone for the wicked things we do?..
The context of the word bribe is this
..Can we do anything to make Him act one way or another, can we bribe Him, can we do enough good things to atone for the wicked things we do?
The bribe in this case is doing good works. Nothing is evil about good works. So my answer is Yes God is pleased with good works.
Saved is not eternal life. Peopl ...[text shortened]... saved by the death of Christ. Eternal life is for those who do good works and live righteously.
The real question is, "can we be righteous enough to atone for the wicked things we do?". They disingenuously frame it in terms of "good things" vs "wicked things" no matter how many times this is pointed out the them.
So, can we be righteous enough to atone for the wicked things we do?
According to the following and elsewhere, the answer is "Yes".
Ezekiel 18
21“But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22“All his transgressions which he has committed will not be remembered against him; because of his righteousness which he has practiced, he will live. 23“Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord GOD, “rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?
For all their talk of YOU picking and choosing from the Bible, they disingenously do exactly that when it comes to passages such as this.
03 Jul 18
Originally posted by @rajk999We cannot make God do anything at all, it is all due to His plan, His purpose, by His design. We are saved by Him because He loves us, He sent Jesus while we were yet sinners not because we deserved to be saved! Being God He is sovereign, as such He can not be compelled to do anything outside of His will!
The context of the word bribe is this
..Can we do anything to make Him act one way or another, can we bribe Him, can we do enough good things to atone for the wicked things we do?
The bribe in this case is doing good works. Nothing is evil about good works. So my answer is Yes God is pleased with good works.
Saved is not eternal life. Peopl ...[text shortened]... saved by the death of Christ. Eternal life is for those who do good works and live righteously.
03 Jul 18
1 edit
Originally posted by @kellyjayWe cannot make God do anything at all? Read the book of Job. Satan did it
We cannot make God do anything at all, it is all due to His plan, His purpose, by His design. We are saved by Him because He loves us, He sent Jesus while we were yet sinners not because we deserved to be saved! Being God He is sovereign, as such He can not be compelled to do anything outside of His will!
We [humans] cannot MAKE GOD do anything but as humans we can earn Gods favour by living righteously and being obedient. I gave examples and yet you continue to repeat your unbiblical church doctrine.
We are saved by the death of His Son. ie Saved from the inherited sin which came to all men because of Adam. Jesus removed that burden. Saved from that sin does not automatically mean eternal life.
03 Jul 18
Originally posted by @rajk999There are just to many things to correct in what you just said.
We cannot make God do anything at all? Read the book of Job. Satan did it
We [humans] cannot MAKE GOD do anything but as humans we can earn Gods favour by living righteously and being obedient. I gave examples and yet you continue to repeat your unbiblical church doctrine.
We are saved by the death of His Son. ie Saved from the inherited sin which ca ...[text shortened]... f Adam. Jesus removed that burden. Saved from that sin does not automatically mean eternal life.
03 Jul 18
Originally posted by @kellyjayNothing to correct. We have two different doctrines.
There are just to many things to correct in what you just said.
Yours is talk - profess with your mouth and deny with your mouth etc
Mine is demonstrate your faith by action,
03 Jul 18
Originally posted by @rajk999I have shown you over and over several text that directly disputes your doctrine, but
Nothing to correct. We have two different doctrines.
Yours is talk - profess with your mouth and deny with your mouth etc
Mine is demonstrate your faith by action,
instead of taking each verse to show me how it doesn't dispute your doctrine, you come
up with the spew out of your mouth ignoring the scripture you were shown. It is amazing
the very thing you accuse me of doing is actually the very thing you do when you reject
the Word of God.