So it looks like people NEED the religion scam.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Assuming God did exist, and it did glorify him, what would be the grounds of your objection to this?

You will note, there's still no word from sonship about what on earth he thinks the word "glorify" might mean in the context of the endless torturing of billions of people.

Originally posted by sonhouse
You should talk about clear thinking. ...

Never mind about people who think we didn't. Do pop stars deserve more views? Our culture is in a weird place.

YouTube

Originally posted by sonship
Are you going to put up the original post here or are you going to do something else ?

If you have the original discussion where I wrote something about future created creatures and hanging in chains and so forth, paste that post here now.

Post it rather than argue about what I "really want to deny".
What I have a problem with is your extrapolatio ...[text shortened]... seem to ridicule in connection with the witnessing of confined and punished rebels against God.

Are you going to ignore my provision of your infamous statement? Are you not going to acknowledge that you said it? Are you not going apologise for accusing me of misrepresenting you? Nothing, just blank it out and prestend it didn't happen, is that your strategy?

Originally posted by FMF
You will note, there's still no word from sonship about what on earth he thinks the word "glorify" might mean in the context of the endless torturing of billions of people.

Looks like he's going to ignore it.

Originally posted by divegeester
Looks like he's going to ignore it.

Kind of like God going around to each and every one suffering all that torture, saying 'Can you hear me NOW?' Oh the glory.....

Originally posted by divegeester
Are you going to ignore my provision of your infamous statement? Are you not going to acknowledge that you said it? Are you not going apologise for accusing me of misrepresenting you? Nothing, just blank it out and prestend it didn't happen, is that your strategy?

Nudge for sonship....

Calling sonship.

Originally posted by divegeester
Calling sonship.

Come on, lets keep it short and sweet, we don't want more preaching. I gave up believing in that crap decades ago. Actually I think I came out of the womb atheist. It was powerfully verified when I was 8 and Pentacost Grammy told me I would be damned and go to hell and burn all over forever and ever if I was not baptized in the PENTACOSTAL way and not the wousey drip drip of those evil Lutherans, where I went to school K-8. Lutherans shoved the chatachism down my throat for 8 years and seeing religions of the same basic faith convinced me it was all man made. Since figuring that out at age 8 I have seen nothing to contradict that stance.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Come on, lets keep it short and sweet, we don't want more preaching. I gave up believing in that crap decades ago. Actually I think I came out of the womb atheist. It was powerfully verified when I was 8 and Pentacost Grammy told me I would be damned and go to hell and burn all over forever and ever if I was not baptized in the PENTACOSTAL way and not the w ...[text shortened]... s all man made. Since figuring that out at age 8 I have seen nothing to contradict that stance.

I have no idea why you think I'm interested in your atheism. I'm asking sonship to back tovthis thread were he has made accusations of me misrepresenting him and is avoiding questions from other posters.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Come on, lets keep it short and sweet, we don't want more preaching. I gave up believing in that crap decades ago. Actually I think I came out of the womb atheist. It was powerfully verified when I was 8 and Pentacost Grammy told me I would be damned and go to hell and burn all over forever and ever if I was not baptized in the PENTACOSTAL way and not the w ...[text shortened]... s all man made. Since figuring that out at age 8 I have seen nothing to contradict that stance.

Similar reactions and conclusions when I was 8 as well.... aided by my "Lutheran on the outside atheist on the onside" dad

Sonship are you going to come back to this thread and apologise for accusing me of misrepresenting you?

Are you going to explain to people who are asking how the the eternal suffering in hell which you feeling is "God's perfect justice" somehow glorifies him?

Originally posted by divegeester
Sonship are you going to come back to this thread and apologise for accusing me of misrepresenting you?

Are you going to explain to people who are asking how the the eternal suffering in hell which you feeling is "God's perfect justice" somehow glorifies him?

Have you found the original post that you were so bothered about ?
Thanks. Let me take a look.

God's design after life is past, is to destroy the uncorrected.
Corrective dealings have not done them any good.
And nothing has so hardened them against repentance as the rejection of Christ.

Corrective punishment is put away and Destructive punishment will be their lot. Their influence on others will not be tolerated to continue. Administering kindness and patience has only hardened the sinner. The offer that they be viewed by the Legislator of the universe that as if never having sinned at all was jeered at and spurned. Their poison will not be allowed to spread to others in the world to come.

Warning has failed. God will show that He loves righteousness and hates iniquity. If there are laws and threats attached warning of the breaking of those laws, those consquences cannot be a paper posturing. They must be executed. He must be a Righteous Governor.

He will not prove to be a careless faker.
He will prove to mean what He has patiently warned of with mercy and tolerance. Now the uncorrected sinner has been hardened by God's longsuffering. The character of God as Creator and King will fall upon him since His character as Savior has been rejected.

The saved will glorify God with their endless happiness. But the lost will glorify Him with their endless woe. They will be hung out in chains of punishment as an example to deter other worlds. That punishment is designed to deter others from like guilt is evidenced so often in the Bible.

In the one and only theocratic society, the stubborn son who would not be corrected wast to be stoned. The harsh penalty was "So shall you put away the evil from you, and all Israel shall hear and fear." (Deut. 21:21; 27:13; 19:20).

God bears long with iniquity. He will not bear with it forever. In the end a display of the terrors of His just wrath fails, after hope is over, after mercy is past.

Destruction then is not the loss of being. It is the loss of well-being.
The welfare of the offender is then hopeless. The welfare of the saved is consulted by their destruction.

Do I owe you an apology ?

Well Dive, I don't think you have that much ground do demand an apology. Here is why.
Most of the time I recall you bring up this hanging in chains, you do not, I feel, show that this was an expression "chains of punishment" .

Here is the key sentence -

They will be hung out in chains of punishment as an example to deter other worlds.

1.) Most of the time I don't think you use the full phrase that I used - "chains of punishment".

It seems by rememberance that when you refer to this post you just say something like - "Sonship you said they would be hung up in chains".

Okay, I did say "hung up in chains" ..." ... OF PUNISHMENT". It should be clear that "chains of punishment" is a metaphor. Literal chains was not intended by my use of the phase "chains of punishment".

Admittedly this is still fearful a destiny. And it is meant to convey exactly that. Hung up in "chains of punishment" cannot be good for those punished. You'll have to blame the New Testament for that.

You can say that you don't believe it.
I don't apologize for saying it and someone saying "I don't believe that. That cannot be true."

2.) Now the phrase I used "future worlds" really has not enough detail in it for anyone to insist that I am teaching a strong doctrine about life on other planets. Admittedly "future worlds" could mean that.

But I didn't insist so as anyone could say I was making "life on other planets" as a MAJOR Christian doctrine. Had I had the opportunity to write this post again, I would probably phrase it differently.

I would convey that whatever worlds there may be in the future, on this planet or any other one, the judgment of God would be a testimony of the failed rebellion and subsequent divine judgment.

3.) Concerning "perfect justice" i think this is a matter of whether one believes this or not.

If I don't think this is perfect justice then I must believe that God is not Just. In this case He bestowed upon His creatures - us, something that He did not have to give - a higher sense of justice.

I think the post itself explained what I meant. You can say it is inadequate. You can say you just don't believe that. I don't apologize for either of those reactions.

I don't apologize for a brief quote which subject whole books have been written about.
I may be sorry that I cannot express it to everyone's convincing.
But that is not an apology of wrongdoing.

If you think that you have NOT conveyed this "chains" with disregard for the metaphorical usage I originally wrote, if you think that metaphorical sense of "chains of punishment" I would apologize. But I don't have enough evidence that you didn't kind of exploit my expression and just convey "sonship said the punished are hung up in chains ...". I think you exploited the word "chains". In the future why not quote exactly - "Chains of punishment" ?

But if you feel that you do not usually exploit it, maybe I could apologize.
There is no strong doctrine of future guaranteed extra-terrestrial beings here.

You should know that "worlds" can mean "ages" or epochs of time. So "future worlds" could also mean simply the ages to come in the future eternity.

Originally posted by sonship to divegeester
Do I owe you an apology ?

Well Dive, I don't think you have that much ground do demand an apology. Here is why.
Most of the time I recall you bring up this hanging in chains, you do not, I feel, show that this was an expression "chains of punishment" .

So you are asserting that divegeester hadn't referred honestly or correctly to what you'd claimed about punishment and deterrent because he didn't actually use the word "punishment" when he mentioned what you'd said?

Originally posted by sonship
The saved will glorify God with their endless happiness. But the lost will glorify Him with their endless woe.

What definition of "glory" are you using to claim that torturing billions of human beings forever in flames serves to "glorify" your god figure?

Originally posted by sonship
They will be hung out in chains of punishment as an example to deter other worlds. That punishment is designed to deter others from like guilt is evidenced so often in the Bible.

How can it possibly act as a "deterrent" to people who find it unbelievable and incoherent or to people who have already died?