1. Standard memberRajk999
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    26 May '16 11:43
    .. if he causes one believer in Christ to be lost.

    This has to be the most glaring example of Christians abdicating all responsibility for their conduct and actions, and blaming someone else [in this case God] for their failure. Fools dare where angels fear to tread.

    Judas Iscariot was lost because of his sins. And their were others like Ananias and Saphira who were killed because of their sins.

    Is this view held by Sonship typical of the Christian community?

    Comments welcome.
  2. Standard membersonship
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    26 May '16 11:573 edits
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Judas never called Jesus "Lord". I believe this is an indication that he never believed in Him as God's Son probably, as the other disciples had believed.

    Ananias and Saphira were disciplined.

    The idiocy of your theology is that God has only one way to discipline anyone - and that is to cause them to perish forever.

    This is your idiotic generalization.Once again we have to bring you back to the word of God. Some will suffer loss yet they themselves will be saved yet so as through fire.

    Ananias and Saphira I believe were disciplined as an example for generations to come not to attempt to lie to the Holy Spirit. I do not believe they perished eternally.

    Does grandstanding call for opening up another sensational thread every time you wish to argue against me ?
  3. Standard memberRajk999
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    26 May '16 12:01
    Originally posted by sonship
    Judas never called Jesus [b]"Lord". I believe this is an indication that he never believed in Him as God's Son probably, as the other disciples had believed.

    Ananias and Saphira were disciplined.

    The idiocy of your theology is that God has only one way to discipline anyone - and that is to cause them to perish forever.

    This is your id ...[text shortened]... tanding call for opening up another sensational thread every time you wish to argue against me ?[/b]
    If you read the post you would see that I asked for comments from others.
    I do not wish to argue with you or to read your opinions.
    Thanks
  4. Standard memberRajk999
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    26 May '16 12:04
    Originally posted by sonship
    Judas never called Jesus [b]"Lord". I believe this is an indication that he never believed in Him as God's Son probably, as the other disciples had believed.

    Ananias and Saphira were disciplined.

    The idiocy of your theology is that God has only one way to discipline anyone - and that is to cause them to perish forever.

    This is your id ...[text shortened]... tanding call for opening up another sensational thread every time you wish to argue against me ?[/b]
    Claiming that I believe that God has one way to discipline Christians, is a demonstration that you cannot read and understand simple english,

    There are many ways, like I keep saying ... one way is destruction for certain Christians like Judas probably who displeased God so much that he will not be in the Kingdom of God.

    Christ and all the Apostles taught this. Not all Christians will enter into the Kingdom of God.
  5. Standard membersonship
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    26 May '16 12:281 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Claiming that I believe that God has one way to discipline Christians, is a demonstration that you cannot read and understand simple english,

    There are many ways, like I keep saying ... one way is destruction for certain Christians like Judas probably who displeased God so much that he will not be in the Kingdom of God.

    Christ and all the Apostles taught this. Not all Christians will enter into the Kingdom of God.
    Not all Christians will enter into the Kingdom of God.


    Yes they will, just not all at the same time.

    " Until we all arrive at the oneness of the faith and of the full knowledge of the Son of God, at a full grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. ' (Eph. 4:13)


    Paul says "Until we all arrive". He did not say we all arrive at the same time necessarily.

    I don't think we are talking past one another. I think I understand you quite well.
    And I do not subject myself to you for an instant.

    Not as long as you do not teach the power and security of Christ's eternal redemption, will I subject myself to you.
  6. Standard memberRajk999
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    26 May '16 12:361 edit
    Originally posted by sonship
    Not all Christians will enter into the Kingdom of God.


    Yes they will, just not all at the same time.

    [b] " Until we all arrive at the oneness of the faith and of the full knowledge of the Son of God, at a full grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. ' (Eph. 4:13)


    Paul says "Until ...[text shortened]... o not teach the power and security of Christ's eternal redemption, will I subject myself to you.
    Paul speaks of enemies of the cross of Christ. These are people among the Christian ranks. They will be destroyed. Just like in 1 Cor 3 ...some will be destroyed.

    Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) (Philippians 3:17-19 KJV)

    All Christians will be in the Kingdom of God ? No way! The Bible never says that .. that is your wet dream pal .. wake up 😀
  7. Subscribersonhouse
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    26 May '16 12:595 edits
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Paul speaks of enemies of the cross of Christ. These are people among the Christian ranks. They will be destroyed. Just like in 1 Cor 3 ...some will be destroyed.

    [i]Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are ...[text shortened]... Kingdom of God ? No way! The Bible never says that .. that is your wet dream pal .. wake up 😀
    It is continually amazing how we anthropomorphize deities, giving them human traits when in fact a god capable of snapping its rhetorical fingers and a universe appears, SURE, that deity MUST look just like humans, have reactions just like humans 'I am a Jealous god'. Right.

    God and human enemies, an oxymoron.
    Lets see, being A, capable of manufacturing whole universes with ease, will be somehow jealous of being B, the advanced ape known as humans where the best of us have only managed to walk on our nearest body in space, the moon.

    Yeah, we are such a threat to this deity it has to destroy all life on land to spite a few thousand 'bad' humans.

    Sure, it could happen.

    Just not in THIS universe.

    The fact nobody in the religious world has the independence of mind to question all this utter BS says a lot as to the cleverness of the original writers, setting things up in such a way that people are convinced black is white and you don't get to use your heritage, your intelligence, to actually argue against all that, back in the day if you were part of that crowd and did the apostate deal, you end up dead.

    Yep, I can REALLY see a deity so worried about those intractable humans it want's them dead, kaput, zippered, concrete boots, drawn and quartered, heads mounted on a pole because this loving deity wants to make bloody sure none of its enemies can hurt it.

    God and human enemies, an oxymoron.

    Like the word implies, you breath too much oxygen, you become a moron.
  8. Standard membersonship
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    26 May '16 13:221 edit
    .
  9. Standard membersonship
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    26 May '16 13:341 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    It is continually amazing how we anthropomorphize deities, giving them human traits when in fact a god capable of snapping its rhetorical fingers and a universe appears, SURE, that deity MUST look just like humans, have reactions just like humans 'I am a Jealous god'. Right.


    You sure are ignorant still. Amazing.
  10. Standard memberKellyJay
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    26 May '16 15:09
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    .. if he causes one believer in Christ to be lost.

    This has to be the most glaring example of Christians abdicating all responsibility for their conduct and actions, and blaming someone else [in this case God] for their failure. Fools dare where angels fear to tread.

    Judas Iscariot was lost because of his sins. And their were others like Ananias and ...[text shortened]... sins.

    Is this view held by Sonship typical of the Christian community?

    Comments welcome.
    Are there scriptures for the topic of discussion?

    Do we know that Ananias and Saphira were lost just because they died for their sins?
  11. Standard membersonship
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    26 May '16 16:17
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    If you read the post you would see that I asked for comments from others.
    I do not wish to argue with you or to read your opinions.
    Thanks
    My comment came whether you welcomed it or not.
  12. Standard memberRajk999
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    26 May '16 23:36
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Are there scriptures for the topic of discussion?

    Do we know that Ananias and Saphira were lost just because they died for their sins?
    Sonship said this in another threqd:

    If God causes one believer in Christ to be eternally lost then He is not righteous.
    "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and RIGHTEOUS to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9)


    KJ, you need to think. A&S were killed for lying to the Holy Spirit. Do you really want to question what is their fate?
  13. Standard membersonship
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    27 May '16 07:092 edits
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    KJ, you need to think. A&S were killed for lying to the Holy Spirit. Do you really want to question what is their fate?
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    There are two possibilities:

    1.) They were false believers - counterfeit disciples who never believed in Jesus.

    2.) They were true believers.

    You may believe that #1 is the case and it is probably not possible to prove this wrong.

    I think #2 is the case. Severe discipline of genuine Christians is certainly possible. Paul warned that some unruly disciples in the church in Corinth were sickly and even had died because of taking the Lord's Table in an unworthy manner.

    " For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not discern the body.

    Because of this many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep." (1 Cor. 11:29-30)


    In the New Testament the term "sleep" is reserved to describe believing Christians who have physically died. So frankly, Paul is saying some believers in the church in Corinth were disciplined by God by Him cutting short their life, They died. They fell asleep.

    I believe that Ananias and Saphira were like these saved yet disciplined Christians in Corinth. However they remained eternally redeemed and did not lose the gift of eternal life.
  14. Standard membersonship
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    27 May '16 13:223 edits
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    .. if he causes one believer in Christ to be lost.


    If one man or woman who has received Jesus Christ ends up perishing forever then God has abdicated His own promise of eternal redemption and His Son has died unrighteously.

    When you purchase a product and the seller gives you a receipt, the receipt is the proof that the price has been met legally. The receipt stands for the approval of the seller that the transaction has been legally settled.

    The resurrection of Jesus Christ is the proof that God accepted His death for the redemption of sinners who believe into Christ. So Paul says Jesus was delivered to the cross for our offenses and raised for our justification.

    " ... believe on Him who has raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,

    Who was delivered for our offenses and was raised for our justification." (Rom. 4:16b,17)


    If God had not accepted the death of His Son for the sins of the believer then Christ would have remained dead. He then can only die for Himself. God would show He does not accept His death on our behalf then.

    He "was raised for OUR justification" means that His resurrection is the divine RECEIPT that God has accepted His sacrifice for the eternal redemption of sinners.
  15. Standard membersonship
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    27 May '16 13:241 edit
    Because Rajk999 is myopic, narrow, one themed, and obssessively pushing his one note topic of Christians losing salvation, he will probably twist this into encouraging believers live loosely.

    Christ being raised for our justification secured our eternal redemption forever.

    So John says God is 'faithful and RIGHTEOUS to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

    The Recovery Version is very good with the Greek translation of Romans 1:17.

    The righteous shall not only LIVE by faith. The righteous shall HAVE LIFE AND LIVE BY FAITH.

    " For the righteousness of God is revealed in it out of faith, as it is written, 'But the righteous shall have life and live by faith.' " (Rom. 1:17)


    The righteous not only initially possess eternal life through faith. They go on to LIVE in this life by faith. ... "have life and live by faith".



    This has to be the most glaring example of Christians abdicating all responsibility for their conduct and actions, and blaming someone else [in this case God] for their failure. Fools dare where angels fear to tread.


    As I warned, Rajk999 will twist standing upon the righteousness of God's redemption as me teaching permissive loose Christian living. Of course it is not. I am affirming the faithfulness of God in justifying the saved for eternal life through the resurrection of Christ.

    I am teaching that God is faithful to what He willed for the Son, to drink the cup of His death and judgment on behalf of sinners, that they may be eternally redeemed.



    Is this view held by Sonship typical of the Christian community?

    Comments welcome.


    Not everyone wants to join Rajk999 in his ignorance and slander.
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