Originally posted by lemon limewhat a great analogy, FMF all manicured nails and scratches bitchin his heart out in defence of his loved one, divesgeester the bumbling husband, too dullard to stand on his own, man that made me laugh.
I pointed out how FMF had jumped in like an angry spouse defending her husband. This doesn't mean he [b]is your spouse, if that's what you thought it meant. Why are you being so defensive about this? If two men are behaving like a married couple it doesn't mean they are a married couple.[/b]
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI think you are the kind of poster lemon lime was intending to amuse with his attempted taunting/deflection about homosexuality.
what a great analogy, FMF all manicured nails and scratches bitchin his heart out in defence of his loved one, divesgeester the bumbling husband, too dullard to stand on his own, man that made me laugh.
Originally posted by Grampy Bobbyit's all gums flapping and a profusion of phlegm as the hounds howl in vain - 😀
Yes, apparently it goes with the territory within this online spirituality forum, mon frère.
All of our remaining days on earth are precisely numbered by an Omniscient God.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhat analogy shall we use for your relationship with the badger?
what a great analogy, FMF all manicured nails and scratches bitchin his heart out in defence of his loved one, divesgeester the bumbling husband, too dullard to stand on his own, man that made me laugh.
The mind boggles.
😲
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Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeGood Morning Ghastly one, how goes it, should you not be getting ready to enter some secluded sepulchre before daybreak dawns and you turn to dust? An appropriate analogy, hmmmm, Beowulf and Eric Bloodaxe come to pillage and strike terror into the heart of England! to steal your women and precious metals and abscond to the sound of Iron Maiden!
What analogy shall we use for your relationship with the badger?
The mind boggles.
😲
Seeing as robbie carrobie is in Clans Forum mode, here is a contribution on this thread's OP topic from roigam from a different thread last year:
"Eternal torture is a myth (read lie) invented by Satan to control people through fear. The original penalty for sin in the Garden of Eden was death not eternal torture. God never changed that and that is why we die. Revelation is written in symbols. The "lake of fire" pictures the eternal death that those who insist on being sinful will receive as a result. If you burn something in the fire it can never be reconstituted. Those who are thrown into the lake of fire will never live again. They forfeit their life forever and that is written in symbols in a way that we can understand as humans."
Originally posted by robbie carrobiePerhaps a better version would be:
Beowulf and Eric Bloodaxe come to pillage and strike terror into the heart of England! to steal your women and precious metals and abscond to the sound of Iron Maiden!
Tweedledum and Tweedledee come to yabba and strike indifference into the heart of England! To steal our goats and precious mud and abscond to the sound of a wooden kazoo!
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeLOL, gee that's bitter, you can pay us off with Danegeld and tell your wives you defeated us in battle and morris dance all they way home to the sound of pop goes the weasel if you like. Is there no one that can provide some sport for the all conquering heroes Rad Badger and Robbie Carrobie Vince of Darkness?
Perhaps a better version would be:
Tweedledum and Tweedledee come to yabba and strike indifference into the heart of England! To steal our goats and precious mud and abscond to the sound of a wooden kazoo!
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-Removed-
You are defending your position of choosing to accept this as being literally what god will do to some people, by suggesting that Jesus will turn his back on it?
Perhaps.
But I am drawing attention to what the Scripture itself says.
"Outside" the New Jerusalem is not the center of attention.
It may be the center of attention for you because of a near obsessive dislike for the thought.
Your way of fighting the thought is portray all who believe the New Testament there as sadistic. "Feel BAD!!"
Now to the turning away or turning His back, you have to realize that Christ had the Father turn from Him when He became sin for us, a curse, to redeem us.
Christ drank the cup of divine wrath that we might drink the cup of blessing. "My God, my God, Why have you forsaken Me" (Matt. 27:46; Psalm 22:1)
He drank the cup of God's wrath to save sinners. He had prayed that the awful cup would pass from Him -
" ... Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet, not My will, but Yours be done."
This cup filled with the wrath of God undiluted with mercy, Christ drank on behalf of the enemies of God. Yes, the ones who are irreconcilable there in Revelation 14 to the uttermost, will be punished in the presence of the holy angels and of the Redeemer - the Lamb.
The utter worst of this trash disposal is graphically revealed in Revelation 14. It is emphatically stated so that there is no question to the matter. The worshipers of Satan and Antichrist will not be redeemed but forsaken and punished forever.
If you don't believe that God had this put into the Bible then you should prove that these texts were added afterward by sadistic people. If not it is hard to miss the point of Revelation 14:9-12 and nearly impossible to theologically spin it to mean something nicer.
All though the chapter does not mention "the lake of fire" it really has no need to. And in 20:15 where we are told all those whose names are not recorded in the book of life go to the lake of fire, nothing suggests that is a place anyone should want to be.
If you were standing there with a counter to click to see how many people are thrown into the lake of fire, the highness of the number makes no difference. Whether it is two, or two million or two billion or more, the passage does not suddenly vanish from the Greek New Testament, does it?
Anyway, the main attraction in eternity is the city of God mingled with man - the Bride and the Wife of the Lamb - those on who are redeemed and made sons of God.
"And one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, Come here; I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb." (Rev. 21:9)
The judging angel must put his bowl of wrath aside, leave the dreadful sight of the punishment of God's enemies, and accompany John to see the centerpiece of eternity, the union and mingling of God and man.
"And he carried me away in spirit unto a great and high mountain and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,
having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, as clear as crystal." (vs.10,11)
The city has the same jasper appearance as God Himself. Compare Rev. 21:11 with Rev. 4:3.
God appears as jasper.
The city of God appears as jasper.
This means that God has wrought Himself into His redeemed people to be one with them. God and man are mingled as one. And the enemies of God's will are "outside".
Originally posted by sonshipSo, while you admit [don't you?] that Revelation is written in symbols, for the purposes of propagating your torturing God figure ideology, you interpret it as being literally true when it comes to the punishment of those who don't have the same beliefs as you [a.k.a. non-believers]?
If you don't believe that God had this put into the Bible then you should prove that these texts were added afterward by sadistic people. If not it is hard to miss the point of [b]Revelation 14:9-12 and nearly impossible to theologically spin it to mean something nicer.
All though the chapter does not mention "the lake of fire" it really ha ...[text shortened]... e with them. God and man are mingled as one. And the enemies of God's will are "outside".[/b]
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Originally posted by FMFInstead of peppering me with questions, just put forth your interpretation of the text. You think it should be understood some other way? Explain how you think it should be understood.
So, while you admit [don't you?] that Revelation is written in symbols, for the purposes of propagating your torturing God figure ideology, you interpret it as being literally true when it comes to the punishment of those who don't have the same beliefs as you [a.k.a. non-believers]?
It seems to me that some who don't like the matter of eternal punishment want those of us who believe to talk, talk, talk and talk about it until they can find something to ponce on as inconsistent or illogical or scientifically untenable.
The repeat inquisition -
So you believe .... ?
So you think ... ?
So you believe ... ?
So you think ... ?
This kind of endless interrogation, I think, is just to force the Bible believer to go beyond what is written there as plain teaching or symbolic teaching. There hunting for things to shoot down.
God is trying to communicate with man.
If a certain thing is not said in only one way, it is said in other ways too. The accumulated effect of this matter of eternal judgment is clearly fearful to the uttermost. And dread should be the appropriate response.
My last post was to show that dread should not be the final only response to the revelation of God concluding history.
If this is not clear then I'll spell it out in plain words. We shouldn't think about eternal damnation too much. We should turn our eyes to see what God is happy with in eternity.
Originally posted by sonshipIt's fine by me if you go "beyond" whatever you want. Remember, to me, we are discussing the content of your imagination. So I will respond to whatever you claim if I think it is incoherent, nonsensical or depraved ~ and I do so because you insist that your ideology concerns truths that affect me. The stuff you come out with already fits the bill. So please do not feel there is "force" to go beyond what is written.
This kind of endless interrogation, I think, is just to force the Bible believer to go beyond what is written there as plain teaching or symbolic.
Originally posted by sonshipThe whole thing is morally incoherent, philosophically nonsensical and quite simply the most depraved and misanthropic ideology known to man. The fact that you wrap it up in "talk, talk, talk and talk" cannot disguise this. Every time I've gone all the way up the river with you and found you there with your Colonel Kurtz hat on, it's always the same ~ it's "perfect justice", it's "perfect love", it's "perfect morality", it's "perfect vengeance", it's "perfect sense". And why? Well, at it's very core your ideology gives you no answers to offer. Because at it's very core it all boils down to you asserting that your God figure '...says so, so there!'.
It seems to me that some who don't like the matter of eternal punishment want those of us who believe to talk, talk, talk and talk about it until they can find something to ponce on as inconsistent or illogical or scientifically untenable.