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    14 May '15 10:421 edit
    Revelation 14: 9-11
    “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever.

    Who here takes this scripture literally and believes that human beings will be burnt in a fire while Jesus and his angels watch?

    I'm talking to anyone interested but specifically:

    Joesphw
    RJhinds
    KellyJay
    Grampy Bobby
    Suzianne
    Whodey
    Lemon Lime
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    the corrected one.
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    14 May '15 10:531 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Revelation 14: 9-11
    “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur [b]in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb
    . And the smoke of their ...[text shortened]... sted but specifically:

    Joesphw
    RJhinds
    KellyJay
    Grampy Bobby
    Suzianne
    Whodey
    Lemon Lime[/b]
    sonship

    What are you going to do divegeester? Are you going to gather us all together and throw us into some fiery doctrinal trash can of your own ?

    And watch us squirm!

    I take the passage at face value.
    It communicates something which I take seriously and think is intended by God to cause caution and fear at joining the final rebellion of the Antichrist.
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    14 May '15 12:17
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Revelation 14: 9-11
    “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur [b]in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb
    . And the smoke of their ...[text shortened]... sted but specifically:

    Joesphw
    RJhinds
    KellyJay
    Grampy Bobby
    Suzianne
    Whodey
    Lemon Lime[/b]
    If you like, you could mail me your Bible and I could white out the sections you don't like.

    So what are your options if you want this to go away?

    1. Believe that the fire and torment represent something that is not eternal but just temporal.
    2. Believe that the fire and torment represent something other than fire and torment.
    3. Believe that the scriptures that talk about fire and torment are false which leads you to throw out all the parts of the Bible you don't like, which essentially leaves you with a religion that you create/dismantle.


    Can you think of any others?

    I don't think Jesus went to the cross to die a horrible death cause he felt like it, I think it was to try and spare us a horrible death.
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    14 May '15 13:09
    Originally posted by sonship
    sonship

    What are you going to do divegeester? Are you going to gather us all together and throw us into some fiery doctrinal trash can of your own ?

    And watch us squirm!

    I take the passage at face value.
    It communicates something which I take seriously and think is intended by God to cause caution and fear at joining the final rebellion of the Antichrist.
    Oh yes I forgot about you!

    I'm not going to do anything; I just find asking these direct questions is helping me better understand the mind of mainstream contemporary Christianity. I find your concept of the Biblical God to be disgustingly abhorrent. I guess that means I'm not a Christian doesn't it.
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    14 May '15 13:122 edits
    Originally posted by whodey
    If you like, you could mail me your Bible and I could white out the sections you don't like.

    So what are your options if you want this to go away?

    1. Believe that the fire and torment represent something that is not eternal but just temporal.
    2. Believe that the fire and torment represent something other than fire and torment.
    3. Believe that the ...[text shortened]... die a horrible death cause he felt like it, I think it was to try and spare us a horrible death.
    Well actually yes, I do think they represent something other than fire and (eternal) torment. Are you claiming that you believe all of the Bible to be literal and that you live by that?

    Do you think the "cup of wrath" and the "wine of fury" are literal?

    Do you think the seven-headed beast with ten horns is literal?

    Do you think the whore of Babylon is literally a woman whore with a cup full of maddening wine?
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    14 May '15 13:212 edits
    Where would Christianity be without it's fire and brimstone, lakes of fire and little devils with pitch-forks jabbing at the butt-cheeks of the billions and billions of people kept alive in a manufactured, maintained hellish place where the loving God of grace and mercy will stand with his posse of angels and observe the carnage and stench of blistering flesh, the screams and tears and suffering.

    Meanwhile all the rest of Christendom is in the next room playing with the baby tigers and lambs.

    Wonderful.

    Yes sonship and whodey I can see how you would think this scenario is literal.
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    14 May '15 13:511 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Where would Christianity be without it's fire and brimstone, lakes of fire and little devils with pitch-forks jabbing at the butt-cheeks of the billions and billions of people kept alive in a manufactured, maintained hellish place where the loving God of grace and mercy will stand with his posse of angels and observe the carnage and stench of blistering ...[text shortened]...
    Wonderful.

    Yes sonship and whodey I can see how you would think this scenario is literal.
    Why would it not be literal? Because it doesn't sound nice?
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    14 May '15 14:04
    Originally posted by Great King Rat
    Why would it not be literal? Because it doesn't sound nice?
    Good point. It could be literal but I choose not to believe it. I'm pleased that I don't believe it. I don't believe in the 7 headed beast either.
  9. SubscriberSuzianne
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    14 May '15 14:141 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Revelation 14: 9-11
    “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur [b]in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb
    . And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever.[/b]
    Missing the point here just a little bit?

    These are the only ones who will be tormented: Satan, his lieutenants, and anyone who worships the beast and/or takes his mark. The rest will die the second death of the inferno and be no more.

    But rather than take this as a warning to not receive the mark, yea, even unto death, you choose to act all pissed off that anyone would even dare to suggest that this might happen to YOU. Get over yourself and heed the warning as it stands.
  10. SubscriberSuzianne
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    14 May '15 14:29
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Good point. It could be literal but I choose not to believe it. I'm pleased that I don't believe it. I don't believe in the 7 headed beast either.
    Do you believe that there will be a human who will be the AntiChrist, what Revelation calls the Beast, the "abomination of desolation"? What about the "False Prophet", that there will be a "man of the cloth" who will assist in forcing man to submit to and worship the Beast?

    I don't believe the Beast will have 7 heads and 10 horns and 10 crowns, either. This is a symbolic rendering of the man who will become the Beast, to assist us in recognizing him.
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    14 May '15 14:31
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Good point. It could be literal but I choose not to believe it. I'm pleased that I don't believe it. I don't believe in the 7 headed beast either.
    But then you can't really blame anyone for believing it, right?

    I mean, it says so right there in your holy book.

    How much is that book worth if you're just going to ignore or re-explain every phrase in that book that you happen to dislike?

    Which part of it is God's word and which isn't? How do you decide? Is God a reality or is it no more than what you would like to be reality?
  12. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    14 May '15 15:09
    Originally posted by Suzianne

    I don't believe the Beast will have 7 heads and 10 horns and 10 crowns, either. This is a symbolic rendering of the man who will become the Beast, to assist us in recognizing him.
    How will the symbolism of 7 heads, 10 horns and 10 crowns assist you in recognizing him?
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    14 May '15 15:281 edit
    Originally posted by sonship
    sonship

    What are you going to do divegeester? Are you going to gather us all together and throw us into some fiery doctrinal trash can of your own ?

    And watch us squirm!

    I take the passage at face value.
    It communicates something which I take seriously and think is intended by God to cause caution and fear at joining the final rebellion of the Antichrist.
    so jesus will, in fact, watch? the one who preached peace, love and compassion will watch sinners being tormented for all eternity?

    also, i am interested in the specifics. will he have to visit each cauldron? how much time must he stare at any given sinner? must he watch them all, or just load a browser page and click on "gimme a random sinner" to watch? will there be a sinner of the day, like today is hitler and tomorrow is some random gay man who obviously went to hell, because it doesn't matter if you are a loving person, you also have to be loving towards the right gender?
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    14 May '15 15:29
    Originally posted by Great King Rat
    Why would it not be literal? Because it doesn't sound nice?
    in the religion that prides itself on love and forgiveness, that's obviously the reason it isn't literal.
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    14 May '15 15:31
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Missing the point here just a little bit?

    These are the only ones who will be tormented: Satan, his lieutenants, and anyone who worships the beast and/or takes his mark. The rest will die the second death of the inferno and be no more.

    But rather than take this as a warning to not receive the mark, yea, even unto death, you choose to act all p ...[text shortened]... to suggest that this might happen to YOU. Get over yourself and heed the warning as it stands.
    Missing what point exactly - that it's OK to burn people for eternity while you stand and watch, because they did what exactly...?
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