Originally posted by FMFI showed interest at times. And as usual I answered in a manner - essentially -
Christians posters like roigam and checkbaiter have done so in the past and, relatively speaking, you show little interest.
"This may be a problem for you. Here is why that is not a problem for me."
Originally posted by sonshipI think Revelation was "put into the Bible" decades and decades and decades after the death of Jesus by ecclesiastical technocrats with the zealous mind map of the likes of you, sonship, for the explicit interests of corporate Christianity at that time.
If you don't believe that God had this put into the Bible then you should prove that these texts were added afterward by sadistic people.
Thread 158662
3 edits
-Removed-I have spoken to this before. This is the analogy which I used.
If you wish your children to avoid a place like Sing Sing prison you may describe it is its absolute worst terms.
"Kids, don't end up in Sing Sing. It is too terrible to imagine how they treat you. There is solitary. There are brutal fightings. Stay out of that place."
Now there may be some places in Sing Sing which relatively speaking are bad but less bad than the worst of it. But you don't want the children to place any hope in getting a "maybe better" spot in Sing Sing prison. You want them to avoid the entire place - period.
It seems reasonable that punishment of sinners would have degrees of severity. I do not know that. But it seems reasonable from what I read in the Bible. But to be eternally separated from God is to be avoided ENTIRELY.
"If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire." (Rev. 20:15)
Someone may ask "Is their experience there the exact same as the followers of Antichrist in chapter 14 or the Devil and the Antichrist and his false prophet in 20:10 ? "
I don't know Divegeester. I really do not know. But the warning does not encourage anyone should be curious enough to go there and find out. Not having one's name recorded in the book of life has to be avoided - PERIOD! Going to the lake of fire has to be avoided through God, through Jesus Christ, period.
I think that is the way we should take it.
We hear a lot of protest about billions going to hell.
"What about the billions .... what about the billions ? ? "
When the discples of Jesus asked about percentages of people who would not be saved, He only answered them HOW they should enter.
Jesus did not respond with percentages or decimal fractions of the total. He responded essentially with YOU ENTER.
And someone said to Him, Lord, are there only a few who are being saved?
And He said to them, Struggle to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to enter, yet will not be able. (Luke 13:23,24)
Jesus never gave a statistical breakdown.
No pie chart. No histogram. No statistics except a directive to struggle to enter into the narrow door.
Whether the passage concerns reward of the kingdom or eternal salvation, the effect is the same. " [You] enter ... because many, I tell you, will seek to enter, yet will not be able."
It is better this way and also gives the gospel preacher the burden to help others to enter.
Originally posted by FMFFor two hundred years after Jesus, Christians themselves decided what was part of scripture. Regardless of your desire to blame some "corporate entity" for some imagined sin, the books that would constitute the "New Testament" were already part of biblical canon by the middle of the 3rd century, and without any input from "ecclesiastical technocrats" or even "corporate Christianity", whatever that is.
I think Revelation was "put into the Bible" decades and decades and decades after the death of Jesus by ecclesiastical technocrats with the zealous mind map of the likes of you, sonship, for the explicit interests of corporate Christianity at that time.
Thread 158662
Originally posted by SuzianneYour personal sincerity and certainty is not evidence of anything. Who wrote Revelation, when did they do it, and why do you think it actually is Jesus is speaking in it?
For two hundred years after Jesus, Christians themselves decided what was part of scripture. Regardless of your desire to blame some "corporate entity" for some imagined sin, the books that would constitute the "New Testament" were already part of biblical canon by the middle of the 3rd century, and without any input from "ecclesiastical technocrats" or even "corporate Christianity", whatever that is.
1 edit
Originally posted by FMFJeez FMF. Haven't you ever read Revelation?
Your personal sincerity and certainty is not evidence of anything. Who wrote Revelation, when did they do it, and why do you think it actually is Jesus is speaking in it?
You can read it for yourself and see who wrote it and what Jesus said and to whom He said it!
For crying out loud! 🙄
Originally posted by josephwWhoosh.
Jeez FMF. Haven't you ever read Revelation?
You can read it for yourself and see who wrote it and what Jesus said and to whom He said it!
For crying out loud! 🙄
Can you tell me me why anyone should believe it actually is Jesus is speaking in it? And 'because the book itself says so' won't do.
Originally posted by FMFHowever, like you say, "Your personal sincerity and certainty is not evidence of anything."
Your personal sincerity and certainty is not evidence of anything. Who wrote Revelation, when did they do it, and why do you think it actually is Jesus is speaking in it?
One wonders why I stuck it out in that thread you refer to as long as I did.
One also wonders that if you don't take anything in Revelation as real, then who did write it, when and why, in your personal opinion and certainty, do you NOT think "it actually is Jesus speaking in it"?