Speculation

Speculation

He who discards scriptural injunctions and acts according to his own whims attains neither perfection, nor happiness, nor the supreme destination. (BG 16.23)

tan anadrtya yo 'vidvan
arthan arabhate svayam
tasya vyabhicaranty artha
arabdhas ca punah punah

tan - those; anadrtya - neglecting; yah - anyone who; avidvan - rascal; arthan - schemes; arabhate - begins; svayam - personally; tasya - his; vyabhicaranti - do not become successful; arthah - purposes; arabdhah - attempted; ca - and; punah punah - again and again.

A foolish person who manufactures his own ways and means through mental speculation and does not recognize the authority of the sages who lay down unimpeachable directions is simply unsuccessful again and again in his attempts. (SB 4.18.5)

PURPORT:

At the present moment it has become fashionable to disobey the unimpeachable directions given by the acaryas and liberated souls of the past. Presently people are so fallen that they cannot distinguish between a liberated soul and a conditioned soul. A conditioned soul is hampered by four defects: he is sure to commit mistakes, he is sure to become illusioned, he has a tendency to cheat others, and his senses are imperfect. Consequently we have to take direction from liberated persons.

This Krsna consciousness process directly receives instructions from the Supreme personality of Godhead via persons who are strictly following His instructions. Although a follower may not be a liberated person, if he follows the supreme, liberated Personality of Godhead, his actions are naturally liberated from the contamination of the material nature. Lord Caitanya therefore says: "By My order you may become a spiritual master." One can immediately become a spiritual master by having full faith in the transcendental words of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and by following His instructions.

Materialistic men are not interested in taking directions from a liberated person, but they are very much interested in their own concocted ideas, which make them repeatedly fail in their attempts. Because the entire world is now following the imperfect directions of conditioned souls, humanity is completely bewildered.

Cut and paste from Vedanta

Originally posted by Dasa
Speculation

He who discards scriptural injunctions and acts according to his own whims attains neither perfection, nor happiness, nor the supreme destination. (BG 16.23)

tan anadrtya yo 'vidvan
arthan arabhate svayam
tasya vyabhicaranty artha
arabdhas ca punah punah

tan - those; anadrtya - neglecting; yah - anyone who; avidvan - rascal; arthan - sch ...[text shortened]... ctions of conditioned souls, humanity is completely bewildered.

Cut and paste from Vedanta

I was interested in your numerous experiences with ghosts which you mentioned in another thread?

Originally posted by divegeester
I was interested in your numerous experiences with ghosts which you mentioned in another thread?

Many ghosts try to take over the body of another because they have desires, but do not have a body to act on those desires.

They will mostly try to invade the body of a person in the mode of ignorance, or who is under th influence of drugs and alcohol, because in this condition the person offers less resistance.

I have experienced a number of times the presence of theses un-embodied beings in my room usually when I was drifting of to sleep, and because I know what they are and what they are up to.....I just found myself observing their presence without fear or resistance..........but most persons when they encounter this become frightened and their heightened alertness sends them away.

They are observable by the distinct wittnessing of a shadow like appearance, and if they get very close to you, their presence is actually felt something like a weight upon you.

The last encounter was about ten years ago, when I was on heavy prescription pain medication, which put me on a level resembling intoxication.

Originally posted by Dasa
Many ghosts try to take over the body of another because they have desires, but do not have a body to act on those desires.

They will mostly try to invade the body of a person in the mode of ignorance, or who is under th influence of drugs and alcohol, because in this condition the person offers less resistance.

I have experienced a number of times the pr ...[text shortened]... en I was on heavy prescription pain medication, which put me on a level resembling intoxication.

Have you considered the posibility that the combination of tiredness, sleep itself and medication could be having this effect on you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

Originally posted by Dasa
He who discards scriptural injunctions and acts according to his own whims attains neither perfection, nor happiness, nor the supreme destination. [...] A foolish person who manufactures his own ways and means through mental speculation and does not recognize the authority of the sages who lay down unimpeachable directions is simply unsuccessful again and again in his attempts.

What else would the literature a self-professed, unsubstantiated "authority" say? I mean, really, what else would it say - when it come right down to it - other than 'Do what we say. Don't do other stuff'?

Originally posted by divegeester
Have you considered the posibility that the combination of tiredness, sleep itself and medication could be having this effect on you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

What are you trying to say.....that un-embodied beings are not possible.

It does not matter if I have experienced them myself or not, because the Vedic teachings have information about their existence, ............as it has information of all things.

Originally posted by Dasa
What are you trying to say.....that un-embodied beings are not possible.

It does not matter if I have experienced them myself or not, because the Vedic teachings have information about their existence, ............as it has information of all things.

I'm just trying to help you. If what you say about these experiences is accurate then you're either suffering with something like sleep paralysis/hallucinations, or you may be in some kind of spiritual peril.

I do believe in the supernatural, but I've never seen a ghost and I would be very disturbed if I did. I have experienced the occasional strange experience when waking up in the middle of the night though; there is plenty of evidence that these night-time experiences can often be attributed natural phenomena.

Originally posted by FMF
What else would the literature a self-professed, unsubstantiated "authority" say? I mean, really, what else would it say - when it come right down to it - other than 'Do what we say. Don't do other stuff'?

FMF you have not done a comparative study of the Vedic teachings compared to fabricated religion.

Vedic teachings require the person who is desiring to raise their consciousness to qualify themselves to receive higher knowledge.

You qualify yourself by engaging in spiritual practices and by giving up sinful activities, and unless you do this you will remain unqualified for eternity.......and being unqualified will leave you bewildered and uninformed as you are.

One cannot gain higher knowledge by rejecting the very source of knowledge that would raise their consciousness in the first place.

If you approach the Vedic teachings with the wrong attitude to begin with, then you are self defeated before you begin.

But having said that, if a person is truthful and genuine they can quickly understand the authenticy of the Vedic literatures..............and this will at least allow them to begin the spiritual process.

Your whimsical rejection of Vedic teachings makes you your own worst enemy, but if you are just not interested in God then this will explain your stand.

You are a theists who does not know for sure if God exists, doesn't believe in the continuance of life after death, does not believe in the soul, does not accept higher knowledge from God, believes that inventing your own spirituality from your conditioned mind is the way..........you are certainly a confused theist........and I dare to say untruthful as well, for to whimsically reject everything makes you so, because when a person rejects they always offer the alternative and you dont have an alternative which makes your comments just nonsense.

A person cannot truthfully speak nonsense.

Originally posted by Dasa
Speculation

He who discards scriptural injunctions and acts according to his own whims attains neither perfection, nor happiness, nor the supreme destination. (BG 16.23)

tan anadrtya yo 'vidvan
arthan arabhate svayam
tasya vyabhicaranty artha
arabdhas ca punah punah

tan - those; anadrtya - neglecting; yah - anyone who; avidvan - rascal; arthan - sch ...[text shortened]... ctions of conditioned souls, humanity is completely bewildered.

Cut and paste from Vedanta

Sounds like the way of the devotee of god.
Not everyone is devotional in their spiritual nature, so while they may respect this WAY, they may not do this themselves.

Like I respect Hendrix as a mean guitarist, but am not really a fan.

Originally posted by Dasa
Speculation

He who discards scriptural injunctions and acts according to his own whims attains neither perfection, nor happiness, nor the supreme destination. (BG 16.23)

tan anadrtya yo 'vidvan
arthan arabhate svayam
tasya vyabhicaranty artha
arabdhas ca punah punah

tan - those; anadrtya - neglecting; yah - anyone who; avidvan - rascal; arthan - sch ctions of conditioned souls, humanity is completely bewildered.

Cut and paste from Vedanta

1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Originally posted by Dasa
You are a theists who does not know for sure if God exists, doesn't believe in the continuance of life after death, does not believe in the soul, does not accept higher knowledge from God, believes that inventing your own spirituality from your conditioned mind is the way..........you are certainly a confused theist........and I dare to say untruthful as well, ...[text shortened]... offer the alternative and you dont have an alternative which makes your comments just nonsense.

Well, as you know by now, I do not need you to share my belief system and it does not concern me that you are contemptuous of it. And, as you also know by now, I do not recognize or submit to the Vedic "authority" - and all the speculations and codifications about the supernatural attendant thereto - so, your cuts and pastes from someone or other asserting that only a foolish person does not recognize the authority of the sages who lay down unimpeachable directions etc. etc. really has no relevance or credibility, except to anthropologists, historians and devotees - like yourself - of your particular sub-sect or brand of Hinduism.

You are just another person on the internet who reckons you know what 'God's instructions' are. I am not, because I don't, and I have absolutely no reason to believe you do, regardless of how honestly you believe you do.

Originally posted by josephw
1 Timothy 4:1 - [b]Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.[/b]

So you believe it is the doctrine of the devil, to show kindness and understanding to our lower species, but instead true religion is about killing animals.

You believe it is the doctrine of the devil .......to not send persons to hell for eternity

You believe it is the doctrine of the devil for God to allow the struggling soul to take another birth to advance their spiritual understanding, but instead they only have one life to reach spiritual perfection.

This is absurdity to the highest degree......and it is cheating the people of true knowledge.

Originally posted by Dasa
FMF you have not done a comparative study of the Vedic teachings compared to fabricated religion.

Well I have looked at the Vedic teachings - including the 100s [or is it 1000s?] of posts you have contributed here - and I've also looked at other religionist teachings over the last 4 decades. And while I recognize the sincerity of your beliefs, I myself do not subscribe to them. Nor do I subscribe to josephw's.

Originally posted by FMF
Well I have looked at the Vedic teachings - including the 100s [or is it 1000s?] of posts you have contributed here - and I've also looked at other religionist teachings over the last 4 decades. And while I recognize the sincerity of your beliefs, I myself do not subscribe to them. Nor do I subscribe to josephw's.

The higher knowledge of the Vedanta has not been presented here in this forum, for I do not want to cast pearls before swine.

I have only presented basics, and I have not even presented all the basics.......but have just generalized the same points over.

Persons in the conditioned state, cannot just briefly look at Vedanta for this will reveal nothing, but the Vedanta teachings have to be followed and lived for spiritual realization to occur.

Without living the spiritual life described in Vedanta, persons will not understand or appreciate the depth of spirituality presented in Vedanta, and therefore cannot come to any conclusion worth mentioning.

Your conclusion is based on what you dont know.........not on what you do know, for you know nothing of Vedanta.

You are just one more person along with the other 6.5 billion who are under illusion and bewildered about .....existence, God, religion and spirituality.

Originally posted by Dasa
You are just one more person along with the other 6.5 billion who are under illusion and bewildered about .....existence, God, religion and spirituality.

Your belief that this is so has no significance to me and has no impact on my beliefs.