Spiritual Experiences on Drugs

Originally posted by Pianoman1
What you call a "spiritual" experience on drugs is a misnomer. It is experience of "LIFE". Under the influence of weed, hash, LSD, whatever, our everyday hallucination that we are a separate entity collapses, and we experience UNITY with the cosmos. It is not spiritual, it is the realty that most of us are unable of experiencing without the help of drugs ...[text shortened]... rse, so explosive an experience that we mistake it for a religious, spiritual enlightenment.

Would you kindly please explain what exactly “Life” is, in your opinion, and what exactly do you mean when you state that, when one is “under the influence of weed, hash, LSD, whatever”, one experiences “unity with the cosmos”?
Furthermore, why do you believe that some of us are able to have such an experience of reality without being high on drugs? What exact property of the reality we perceive when we are high on drugs, which cannot be validated by us as an epistemic object when we are not high on drugs?
😵

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
You practice and love music. Yet you have never felt the presence of God, presumably even while listening to the Great singers or instrumentalists or classical compositions. Yet you talk of a drug related experience ! Are drugs to be taken as the more successful method to realize God ?

I am an atheist, i don't believe in God. I don't think of my 'God experience' as nothing more than chemicals acting on a certain part of my brain. That users of this drug frequently report the same 'God experience' tells me it's the drug.

Originally posted by JS357
Karoly's post reminds me of this topic.

I am speaking of real, chemical drugs here. YDMV.

Once about 35 years ago, outside an Alpha Beta grocery store in Saratoga, CA, I, being high on weed, had an experience that is hard to wordify but I will call it being one with the universe. It began by noticing the star filled sky. (You know the pothead question: H ...[text shortened]... just part of the process for me.

Does anyone have something similar they want to describe?

More to the point:- You had gone in for some drug taking--may be out of curiosity--and had an experience which in remebrance appears as if experiencing God. Don't you now consider that your relating this episode, is somewhat a trivialisation of God ? Is God to be reduced to an experience of a drug taker ? Is this not something similar to the use of " God Helmet " --a foolish and childish trivialisation of God ?

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
More to the point:- You had gone in for some drug taking--may be out of curiosity--and had an experience which in remebrance appears as if experiencing God. Don't you now consider that your relating this episode, is somewhat a trivialisation of God ? Is God to be reduced to an experience of a drug taker ? Is this not something similar to the use of " God Helmet " --a foolish and childish trivialisation of God ?

Is G-d to be reduced to an experience of an inspired theist, which then is akcnowledged as an avatar of G-d or as a "saint" or "G-d inspired" by his fellow theist individuals who then follow blindly his beliefs, although they have no facts and evidence as regards the reality of G-d?
Is this not the unjustified belief that solely a projection of the mind of a "holy man" can reveal G-d because the atheist are not considered "ready", "advanced" etc etc? Based on what facts and evidence a theist concludes that G-d is not a delusion projected by his own mind? How can a theist ever attribute inherent existence to G-d?
😵

Originally posted by black beetle
Would you kindly please explain what exactly “Life” is, in your opinion, and what exactly do you mean when you state that, when one is “under the influence of weed, hash, LSD, whatever”, one experiences “unity with the cosmos”?
Furthermore, why do you believe that some of us are able to have such an experience of reality without being high on drugs? Wh ...[text shortened]... drugs, which cannot be validated by us as an epistemic object when we are not high on drugs?
😵

"Would you kindly please explain what exactly “Life” is, in your opinion."

In my opinion, "life" is the everyday reality of our existence.

" and what exactly do you mean when you state that, when one is “under the influence of weed, hash, LSD, whatever”, one experiences “unity with the cosmos”?"

under the influence of mind-altering drugs we are able to drop a lot of our fears, habitual responses and conditioning which, in my opinion, gets in the way of perceiving the true reality of our existence, which, again in my opinion, is a unity - we are all interconnected and are all parts of a greater whole.

"Furthermore, why do you believe that some of us are able to have such an experience of reality without being high on drugs? What exact property of the reality we perceive when we are high on drugs, which cannot be validated by us as an epistemic object when we are not high on drugs?"

[i] can't answer that!

Originally posted by black beetle
Is G-d to be reduced to an experience of an inspired theist, which then is akcnowledged as an avatar of G-d or as a "saint" or "G-d inspired" by his fellow theist individuals who then follow blindly his beliefs, although they have no facts and evidence as regards the reality of G-d?
Is this not the unjustified belief that solely a projection of the min ...[text shortened]... jected by his own mind? How can a theist ever attribute inherent existence to G-d?
😵

God is not a forbidden or dirty word so you do not have to put the dash in
between "G" and "d". HalleluYah !!! 😏

Originally posted by black beetle
Is G-d to be reduced to an experience of an inspired theist, which then is akcnowledged as an avatar of G-d or as a "saint" or "G-d inspired" by his fellow theist individuals who then follow blindly his beliefs, although they have no facts and evidence as regards the reality of G-d?
Is this not the unjustified belief that solely a projection of the min ...[text shortened]... jected by his own mind? How can a theist ever attribute inherent existence to G-d?
😵

You, a Buddhist, are asking a Hindu to prove existence of God by " Facts " and " Evidence ". I find this hard to believe. I know Buddhism does not consider the Soul to exist. I also know that Buddhism does not recognise God.But it certainly recognises "Awakening ".The essence of this "Awakening " is that one passes beyond the world of intellectual distinctions and opposites to reach the world of " Acintya " or the " Unthinkable ", where Reality appears as undivided and undifferentiated "Suchness ". In short,Buddhism recognises that the intellect is simply the means to clear the way for DIRECT MYSTICAL EXPERIENCE. This being so, why do you want me to produce hard evidence and facts ? If Buddhism has come this conclusion that intellect is of no use in this sphere, why don't you allow Hinduism the same facility ?

Originally posted by Pianoman1
[b]"Would you kindly please explain what exactly “Life” is, in your opinion."

In my opinion, "life" is the everyday reality of our existence.

" and what exactly do you mean when you state that, when one is “under the influence of weed, hash, LSD, whatever”, one experiences “unity with the cosmos”?"

[i] under the influence of ...[text shortened]... s as an epistemic object when we are not high on drugs?" [/b]

[i] can't answer that![/b]

Edit: “In my opinion, "life" is the everyday reality of our existence.”

This is not Life; it is how, in your opinion, Life relates to your existence and to your cognizant apparatus. Your everyday reality cannot be found outside yourself because this reality is you; you are unique (like everybody else if you know what I mean) and your reality is unique, like every sentient being’s reality. The pair “You and Your Reality” are mutually interdependent. As such, your reality is your own projection of your mind and it cannot exist without you. However, Life can exist without you.


Edit: “under… …whole.”

I know that all the observers of the epiontic observer universe are interconnected, but I need not to alter the modifications of my mind by means of taking drugs. What kind of unity is to be found between you, me, Najdorf-Scheveningen, a kilt, an orca, a quasar and an Aprilia?


Edit: “can't answer that!”

You cannot answer that, because you don't have a clue where exactly your point of attention is focused when you are high on drugs.
Anytime we add mental constructions to our reality, we end up with an artificial concept of reality. Under the constant pressure of the everyday life, we cannot understand and evaluate accurately the physical world that surrounds us; we cannot evaluate accurately the signs of our inner world; we cannot evaluate accurately the signs of the world of our ideas –all we do is keep up living in a hurry, taking care of somebody else’s business for some money, spending our time at this and that, never doing what we please more. We are unable to focus the point of our attention to the establishment of fruitful conditions, so we cannot perform plans and thus we remain in chains, drugged by someone else who managed to establish his reality over ours.
Dazed and confused and fed up, we want out and we end up sedated -remember Ramones?- by means of using the so called “mind altering” thingies, forgetting that the real mind-altening thingy is the will of its beholder to focus freely on fruitful and fresh points of attention.
And then we perceive these distorted mental projections of ours as “ultimate reality” that exists out there in separation from us. We say “oh my mind opened”.
And then we want to be in unity with that non-existing thingy that is projected from our own deranged mind; but the drug faded away; and we try it again, and every time we try it the fastest it fades away. Why? Because we are becoming addicted to both the physical drug and to our mental projections, to which we attribute inherent existence.
How could this ever be considered “unity”? It is not unity, it is delusion. I 'm sure there are other ways available if one wants out😵

Originally posted by RJHinds
God is not a forbidden or dirty word so you do not have to put the dash in
between "G" and "d". HalleluYah !!! 😏

Yes RJH, you are right on target there. Thanks for saying what I wanted to say but lacked the courage, blackbeetle being a fellow traveller on the path of Ultimate Reality, after all.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
You, a Buddhist, are asking a Hindu to prove existence of God by " Facts " and " Evidence ". I find this hard to believe. I know Buddhism does not consider the Soul to exist. I also know that Buddhism does not recognise God.But it certainly recognises "Awakening ".The essence of this "Awakening " is that one passes beyond the world of intellectual distinc ...[text shortened]... ect is of no use in this sphere, why don't you allow Hinduism the same facility ?

No my friend, the Buddhist thesis as regards the existence or the non-existence of the Self is dependent to the level of the disciple (Prasanga).

“Awakening” in my tradition is merely the constant shifting of the point of one’s attention that validates a direct experience of the Self according to the tetralemma; it is not a mystical experience
😵

Originally posted by RJHinds
God is not a forbidden or dirty word so you do not have to put the dash in
between "G" and "d". HalleluYah !!! 😏

I don't use the word because I refer to a concept that transcends entirely anything comprehensible to the human mind; if I was giving it a name as if I knew that such an entity were existent and somehow perceived by my mind, I would in fact deny the existence of that entity because it would not have been really transcedental😵

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
Yes RJH, you are right on target there. Thanks for saying what I wanted to say but lacked the courage, blackbeetle being a fellow traveller on the path of Ultimate Reality, after all.

Kindly please lack no courage as regards black beetle; kindly please be yourself whenever we have the pleasure to talk about this and that;

Namaste
😵

Originally posted by black beetle
No my friend, the Buddhist thesis as regards the existence or the non-existence of the Self is dependent to the level of the disciple (Prasanga).

“Awakening” in my tradition is merely the constant shifting of the point of one’s attention that validates a direct experience of the Self according to the tetralemma; it is not a mystical experience
😵

OK, but then you have not answered my question. Why must a Hindu theist produce evidence and facts when Buddhism is not recognising the use of Intellect at the " Awakening "?

Originally posted by black beetle
Kindly please lack no courage as regards black beetle; kindly please be yourself whenever we have the pleasure to talk about this and that;

Namaste
😵

Well, thanks a lot for your reassuring words. Friends must take care that they do not give offence to each other and I respect you as a Friend on the path. That being so, I now understand why you are typing God as G-d. No problems with that at my end any more.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
OK, but then you have not answered my question. Why must a Hindu theist produce evidence and facts when Buddhism is not recognising the use of Intellect at the " Awakening "?

I use the mind in order to unbind; unbinding, desire is not, jealousy is not, ignorance is not, karmic debts are settled; all I am left with is clear light -and then I have no the slightest projection of the mind in there😵