stories of the bible

Originally posted by hakaman
why do people suddenly beleive in god when there on thier death bed,are they saved or is it to late

I guess they figure that they have nothing to loose and everything to gain by doing so. The sad part is I think people like that often view converting beforehand, while in good health, is seen as a drag verses the event enhancing their overall life like it has my own. It does raise an interesting question, however, which is what is a "true conversion". I say that only God knows the hearts of men. In fact, he knows your heart better than you know your own. This can be seen as Christ told his disciple Peter that he would deny him three times. Following this prophecy Peter denied that he would ever do such a thing to the point of tears, however, Christ knew his heart better than Peter did. I am in no way suggesting that Peter was not a true convert prior to his denying Christ three times, however, it is a sobering reminder of how well he knows us and how little we know our own selves. The point to all this is that nothing is hidden from the eyes of God as where we know next to nothing. Therefore, asking who is saved and who is not is rather futile on our part. All we can do is do what is commanded of us and convert the way we are told to in the most sincere way possible and examine our own hearts prior to it being examined for us. Leave the rest to the Big Guy. 😉

Originally posted by hakaman
mosses what was the point,he took them to the promised land,and hello what are they doing making new gods and all kinds of other sin

Excellent point. So as we see, the children of Israel lost faith in God despite them having overwhelming evidence as to his existence. Such evidence includes seeing him spread the plagues in Egypt and seeing him part the Red Sea for their escape and seeing him give them manna from heaven and yet they still chose to go their own way. So is seeing believing in terms of placing their faith in him? Apparently the answer is no. Therefore, he has no real motivation "proving" himself to you or anyone else for that matter.

Originally posted by whodey
There is some merit to your arguement. For example, how would we explain how God parted the Red Sea? How do we explain God sending down manna from heaven to feed the Israelites? How do we explain the creation of life itself? There is, in fact, no way to explain these events, therefore, you will either reject them because you cannot explain them or prove t ...[text shortened]... re incapable. You might even say he is the equivalent to a seeing eye dog for the blind.

Thank you whodey. I am a non-believer of any religion. But I believe in the existence of God. I don't have any evidence for His existence though. I am just guessing it. Of course I have my own reasons for such a guess.

I want to say that I am very impressed with the way you answer the questions on here. I am inclined to believe that you must be some sort of a religious authority, perhaps a priest or the likes. I think your 'reasoning' is sensible in many ways. And you have a very mild approach to get the message over. But I 'hear' you, and I am trying to consider your arguments. I'm saying it's sensible, not believable!

Unfortunately, I hardly have the time to spend on here. When I can find the time, I hope to be able to 'discuss' or even debate on certain religious issues with you, if you don't mind. Thanks again.

Originally posted by ckoh1965
Thank you whodey. I am a non-believer of any religion. But I believe in the existence of God. I don't have any evidence for His existence though. I am just guessing it. Of course I have my own reasons for such a guess.

I want to say that I am very impressed with the way you answer the questions on here. I am inclined to believe that you must be some sort ...[text shortened]... or even debate on certain religious issues with you, if you don't mind. Thanks again.

Careful now, you will give me a big head. Anyhew, thanks for the compliment. I am glad my posts are appreciated to some degree. However, as for me being a religious leader of some kind, all I can say is not really. I simply have chosen to pursue the God of the Bible for myself. Christ is the focal point for me and it is he who has won my heart. All I can say is, how can any one not like the guy? I have yet to hear someone condemn him or his teachings, yet not everyone is effected as I am by him. Any time you want to converse just say the word. After all, I think is apparent enough to all that I love to talk about my Lord and what he means to me.

Originally posted by whodey
Careful now, you will give me a big head. Anyhew, thanks for the compliment. I am glad my posts are appreciated to some degree. However, as for me being a religious leader of some kind, all I can say is not really. I simply have chosen to pursue the God of the Bible for myself. Christ is the focal point for me and it is he who has won my heart. All I ca ...[text shortened]... ll, I think is apparent enough to all that I love to talk about my Lord and what he means to me.

OK, let me share just some of my thoughts.....

It seems to me the God of the religions in this world are forever craving for our attention. They yearn for us to worship and adore him. And some might want to do that willingly. But is it a must? And here, the answer given by the religious people is just so wonderful. No, you don't have to worship Him, if you don't want to. It is up to you, you see. You have free will to choose as you like.

BUT! if you didn't worship God, you'll end up in hell when you die. So in other words, God is sending us to hell because we didn't worship him? NO! We are sending ourselves to hell because we have excercised our free will by choosing not to worship God. Well, you know what? I choose NOT to worship God, and I choose to go to heaven anyway. Those are the choices that I have made, but I guess I'm not going to get then, huh? Therefore, as far as I am concerned, we have no free will!

The other disturbing thing about God -- and this is still connected to the stories of the bible -- I think he solves some of his problems in a very stupid way. When he was so pissed with us humans, he took the action of drowning everyone, even unborn foetuses. There is nothing clever and godly about such a plan, at least not to me. Yes, if indeed he has demonstrated his powers to us minions, all I can say is that this guy needs help himself! But I do not respect a being who's heartless like that. That's why I am annoyed when people keep saying that God is loving, bah! To me, he behaves exactly like Osama bin Laden when he blew up the towers.

So George Bush showed his might in Iraq. I am sure the Iraqis are convinced of the power of the USA. But I am not so sure they respect Bush at all. Hell, I am not even sure that even the Americans repect Bush.

And so, this is the being that I am supposed to have faith in -- unconditionally! Maybe it's me, I don't know, but I find all this very hard to swallow...

A thought I used to have was if there are so many religions professing to right, how cany any of them be right. Then recently I thought either they are all right or they can be all wrong. But certainly no believer should think that they have a lock on the TRUTH! and kill for it!

Originally posted by ckoh1965
OK, let me share just some of my thoughts.....

It seems to me the God of the religions in this world are forever craving for our attention. They [b]yearn for us to worship and adore him. And some might want to do that willingly. But is it a must? And here, the answer given by the religious people is just so wonderful. No, you don't have to worship Hi onditionally! Maybe it's me, I don't know, but I find all this very hard to swallow...[/b]

I can relate to some of what you are saying in that before I became saved I also viewed worship in somewhat the same fashion. However, looking back this was due to a variety of reasons. The first reason I veiwed worship with such disdain was that I could not see myself singing those aweful hymnals sung in church. The music had no appeal to me and it seemed as though people were singing out of obligation rather than enjoyment. However, after I became a Christian and began to study the Bible I soon realized that God does not want such worship. In fact, God ONLY wants sincere worship that comes from the heart. The Bible says that God desires worship in spirit and in truth. In other words, God wants you to want to worship him. He only is interested in your will being in agreement to do so. You might say that any other worship is not true worship, rather, it then becomes some sort of show for others to see. Such worship then becomes aimed at pleasing other men rather than pleasing their God they profess to love. God views such worship with disdain and views it as hypocritical. Even after I became saved, however, those aweful hymnals continued to have little appeal to me. I wanted music that to sing that I could enjoy singing to my God but there seemed to be no such music that praised God that I could really involve myself in except for some contemporary Christian music I found outside of church. This leads me to the second reason I viewed worship with such disdain. I veiwed worship strictly as singing to God. As I matured as a Christian and began studying the Bible I soon realized that worship was not limited to singing those hymnals. Worshiping God can be simply serving others in some way to please my God or it can be studying his word by yourself to learn about him. You see, God wishes us to desire him and have outward expressions that we desire him and love him much in the same way when we love someone else we desire outward expressions that they love us. That is why the number one commandment is to love the Lord your God with all your heart. If you do this worshiping God then comes as a byproduct much in the same way outward expressions of love are shown to those that you love simply because you love them. This is also why we have free will. It is because God is a God of love and love demands free will. Therefore, he desires your will to love him but will not force you. So if you do not choose the God of life what are you choosing? In the end, he must honer your choice.

As far as the fire and brimstone God of the Old Testament, I can relate to this as being a turn off as well. God is holy but we are not. Therefore, it seems as though we should continuously at odds with each other. However, God has continued to reach out to his creation in love hoping that some would reach out to him despite our apparent incapatibility. When man fell in the Garden of Eden, the event could be looked at in two ways. The first way to look at it is God rejecting Adam and Eve by throwing them out of the garden and causing them to die as a punishment. The second way to look at the event is Adam and Eve rejecting God. God is then forced to kick them out of the garden so as to give them the freedom they have demanded from him. The God of life then withdraws himself from them in respect of their free will that had rejected him so they then begin to die as a result. So then you say what about Soddom and Ghammora and what about Noah and the flood? Why did God actively go about killing those people off? It is my view that God takes no pleasure in such action. I think the alternatives would have been far worse for his creation had he allowed those people to continue to live. I came to this conclusion after reading in Genesis that God shortened the life span of man after the flood. Men used ot live close to 1000 years but after the flood man was lucky to live to a hundred. Why? I think it is to prevent such wickedness from ever springing up again like it did before the flood. For example, could you imagine the evil a man like Hitler could do if he was allowed to live for 1000 years? The entire world was at war in large part because of him, yet he did this in a relative short time span of about 50 years. Just like the world is a far better place without such a man as Hitler so was the world a better place without the evil men God felt compelled to extinguish in the Old Testament.

Originally posted by DUI
A thought I used to have was if there are so many religions professing to right, how cany any of them be right. Then recently I thought either they are all right or they can be all wrong. But certainly no believer should think that they have a lock on the TRUTH! and kill for it!

If there be a God there are only two possibilities. Either one religion is correct and the others are frauds or God does not care that everyone is wrong about who and what he is. So what are the implications about such an indifferent God? Is he not as good as dead to us if he demonstrates such indifference to us? As far as killing for the truth, who said that me must?

Originally posted by Acemaster
A newborn hasn't done anything wrong. When Adam ate the forbidden fruit he sinned, and he put sin on all of humanity. Adam doomed us all to hell. God gave us the way out by sending Jesus to die on the cross. When doing that, he saved us. Only we have to accept Christ as our saviour.

If this is in the bibe than all babies of any age would be on there way to hell. Becuase no kid has accepted Christ? Let alone abortion or kids dieing at birth do they all go to Hell? Thanks Kevin

Originally posted by whodey
I can relate to some of what you are saying in that before I became saved I also viewed worship in somewhat the same fashion. However, looking back this was due to a variety of reasons. The first reason I veiwed worship with such disdain was that I could not see myself singing those aweful hymnals sung in church. The music had no appeal to me and it seemed ...[text shortened]... world a better place without the evil men God felt compelled to extinguish in the Old Testament.

Well, again a comment that is a departure from the usual: God works in mysterious ways....

I am fascinated by your hypothesis on human lifespan etc. I dare to venture to say that it is at least a possibility that there is a grain of truth in it. I'm not totally convinced though, but the idea is at least sensible in some ways. If indeed God could see the future; and saw it to be worse than the flood, then it would make sense to opt for the flood. I guess neither Osama nor Bush had that ability to see the future. In spite of this, I find it hard to imagine what could have been worse than drowning unborn foetuses. It is still not very easy to fall in love with a God who would execute such an act.

But in all fairness, I suppose I haven't tried very hard to understand Him. Maybe I should. Each time I tried, I find fantastic unbelievable stories in the bible which had the tendency to put me off the correct path, if indeed there was such a path. Maybe if the messages had been put more clearly and direct, it would have been easier to understand. If only Jesus spoke clearly, instead of talking in parables all the time, it would have been easier to understand the message?

Anyway, your comments are thought-provoking, and perhaps worth pondering. I am convinced that I'll never, ever again, be able to bring myself to sing in church, holding hands and giving sign of peace or the likes (I felt awkward to do so). But I'll keep an open mind; I'll try to understand God--- and his peculiar acts. And this is all on the assumption that there is a God!

Originally posted by Kevin Mcfarland
If this is in the bibe than all babies of any age would be on there way to hell. Becuase no kid has accepted Christ? Let alone abortion or kids dieing at birth do they all go to Hell? Thanks Kevin

And don't forget those canibals in some pockets of deep jungles who were not blessed with the luxury of education and never had the opportunity of 'knowing' the bible. In many ways, they're practically animals living their lives from day to day competing for food etc. Makes you wonder what would happen to them when they die, huh? Is ignorance a sin? Since they never did have the opportunity to love God, would they all go to hell when they die?

Originally posted by ckoh1965
And don't forget those canibals in some pockets of deep jungles who were not blessed with the luxury of education and never had the opportunity of 'knowing' the bible. In many ways, they're practically animals living their lives from day to day competing for food etc. Makes you wonder what would happen to them when they die, huh? Is ignorance a sin? Since they never did have the opportunity to love God, would they all go to hell when they die?

Well acording to what confess the lord I think they would?? Some one with Bible knowlege please expain? Thanks Kevin

Originally posted by ckoh1965

I am fascinated by your hypothesis on human lifespan etc. I dare to venture to say that it is at least a possibility that there is a grain of truth in it. I'm not totally convinced though, but the idea is at least sensible in some ways. If indeed God could see the future; and saw it to be worse than the flood, then it would make sense to opt for the flood. I rstand God--- and his peculiar acts. And this is all on the assumption that there is a God![/b]

The ideas I have about extended human lifespans preflood have spun many theories among believers. For example, there is the canopy theory in which some hypothosize that there was some sort of protective lining in the atmosphere that helped make the entire globe a tropical paradise. Then God removed this vapor like canopy by having the moisture rain down to help flood the earth and to never return. In Genesis before the flood the author talks about a mist like moisture in the air that watered plants verses a diluge of rain that we are accustomed to today. After all, I don't recall Adam and Eve requiring shelter. Also what makes us age? It is somewhat of a mystery even today.

As far a getting to know about the God of the Bible I would say that this is key in understanding him as it is with anyone else for that matter. Also, as far as worship goes consider this. As I said before worship comes as a natural byproduct of loving him. IF you love him you will go about doing things to try and please him as you would any one else you love. Therefore, in order to love him you must first spend time getting to know him as you would anyone else. If you then do this, worship will flow naturally as a result. Therefore, don't become preoccupied with the concept of worship, rather, become preoccupied with getting to know him to make an accurate judgement as to whether or not you want anything to do with him.

You see God is like us in that we are made in his image. We crave love and relationships just as our Creator does as well. Therefore, you must develope a relationship with him if you are ever to love him as you would anyone else. It is only logical to me that we are made in the image of God. After all, when you create something it is a reflection of you as well just as it is a reflection of the Almighty. Your creation reflects your needs, your intelligence, and your desires. This is why a distant and unknowable god in my view cannot be accurate. If he existed we would not be made in his image because we were made for love and relationship in contrast to that god. After all, without love we are nothing.

Originally posted by whodey
Genesis 3:2 And the woman said to the serpent, 'We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden; but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, you shall not eat of it, neither will you touch it, LEST YOU DIE.

So there you have it, Eve knew not to eat of the tree, yet she did eat of the tree. She decided to listen to the serpent instead of her Lord.

adam and eve died of old age ,and the rest of us die of all kinds of other stuff,so who is really being punished for thier crime,its not fair

Originally posted by hakaman
adam and eve died of old age ,and the rest of us die of all kinds of other stuff,so who is really being punished for thier crime,its not fair

So what in your opinion is fair?