Study your Bible to know who God is.

Originally posted by jaywill
http://www.ntgreek.org/answers/answer-frame-john1_1.htm

i can read Greek, can you? i know the difference between a Greek predicate noun and
a subject, do you? i know when a definite article is in the text and when it is not, do
you? Now either you look up the text and translate it for yourself, or you can stop
wasting our time with references which voice nothing more than second hand
opinions, regurgitated for noobs like you that cannot be bothered to learn to read and
write Greek.

I am sorry to be so blunt, but sometimes, that is what it takes.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i can read Greek, can you? i know the difference between a Greek predicate noun and
a subject, do you? i know when a definite article is in the text and when it is not, do
you? Now either you look up the text and translate it for yourself, or you can stop
wasting our time with references which voice nothing more than second hand
opinions, ...[text shortened]... n to read and
write Greek.

I am sorry to be so blunt, but sometimes, that is what it takes.

What is the subject in Luke 20:38?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i can read Greek, can you? i know the difference between a Greek predicate noun and
a subject, do you? i know when a definite article is in the text and when it is not, do
you? Now either you look up the text and translate it for yourself, or you can stop
wasting our time with references which voice nothing more than second hand
opinions, regurgitated for noobs like you that cannot be bothered to learn to read and
write Greek.

King Saul probably had terrific Hebrew reading and writing skills. It didn't stop his mad, insane jealousy to persecute God's anointed king David to the death. Your greek reading and writing are a tissue of excuses to mask your own opposition to the Christ.

My admitted rustiness on Greek aside - Jehovah God stretched out the creation ALONE. And Jehovah asks the rhetorical question "Who was with Me?"

"I am Jehovah who makes all things, Who ALONE stretches out the heavens, Who spread out the earth (Who was with Me?)" (Isaiah 44:24)

Is there a god or God in John 1:1 Who was with Jehovah so that it is an untruth for Jehovah to say "I am Jehovah ... Who ALONE stretches out the heavens" ?

Identify that other god or God or theos that was with Jehovah in stretching out the heavens such that Isaiah 44:24 is not a true statement. Who is that other god ?

When Jehovah asks the rhetorical question "Who was with Me?" is there a god or God or theos in John 1:1 such that we can truthfully answer that THAT god or God or thoes was indeed WITH Jehovah ?

Identify the OTHER god who was WITH Jehovah.

Upon your translation of John 1:1 demonstrate that Identify the other God/god/ theos who is besides Jehovah so that we might inform Him Who was apart from Him:

"Thus says Jehovah the King of Israel, And the Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts,

I am the First and I am the Last, And apart from Me there is no God." (Isa. 44:6)

Does John 1:1 identify that other god/God/theos who is apart from Jehovah the First and the Last ?

A Yes or No will answer my question clearly.

Originally posted by jaywill
King Saul probably had terrific Hebrew reading and writing skills. It didn't stop his mad, insane jealousy to persecute God's anointed king David to the death. Your greek reading and writing are a tissue of excuses to mask your own opposition to the Christ.

My admitted rustiness on Greek aside - Jehovah God stretched out the creation ALONE. And Jehovah Jehovah the First and the Last ?

A Yes or No will answer my question clearly.

I think you should stop using the word Jehovah for God. It is known now
that it is not God's name. It never was and it will never be His name.
We know with absolute certainty that God's name is YH pronounced Yah
as in Hallelu Yah.

Originally posted by RJHinds
What is the subject in Luke 20:38?

ok RJH, i will make this easy for you, here i quote from my book, New Testament
Greek, by D.F. Hudson, page 20, lesson 5.

The verb 'to be'

The verb 'to be', does not express action, but tells us something about the state
, condition or character of the subject. For example, The man is bad. John is a
doctor. Mary was in the house. He is a god not of the dead, but of the living. 'bad',
and 'doctor', are not objects since they are not affected by any action and therefore
they are not put into the accusative in Greek. They complete the sense of the
sentence, so they are compliments, they predicate some quality of the subject, so
they are predicates.


Now applying this knowledge to your question, it is clear to see that,

He is a God, not of the dead, but of the living. . . .

It is self evident that 'He' is the subject, the verb 'to be', comes in the form , 'is', and
the predicate noun is 'a god' , for it tells us something about the character, state or
condition of the subject. This is further enhanced when we consider the implied
question , what kind of God is the Christian God?, the answer, he is not a God of the
dead, but of the living. It is therefore very clear that the term, 'a god', is an
indefinite predicate noun, because it tells us something about the subject, that it
belongs to a particular category or class. These are the facts of Greek grammatical
structure, which you cannot deny, that is why, at Luke 20:38 there is no definite
article.

Now suck it up and study your Bible.

Originally posted by jaywill
King Saul probably had terrific Hebrew reading and writing skills. It didn't stop his mad, insane jealousy to persecute God's anointed king David to the death. Your greek reading and writing are a tissue of excuses to mask your own opposition to the Christ.

My admitted rustiness on Greek aside - Jehovah God stretched out the creation ALONE. And Jehovah Jehovah the First and the Last ?

A Yes or No will answer my question clearly.

ok Jaywill, i have made it quite clear, that in the case of John 1:1, third clause, 'theos' is an
indefinite predicate noun, why, because it describes a quality or characteristic of the
subject, in this instance, 'the Word', it states quite simply that the word belongs to a
particular class or category. That is what an indefinite predicate noun does. That is why
we can state that the word is 'a god', 'is divine', 'is a mighty spiritual being', for its
indicative of belonging to that category or class. We have no choice in translation, its
simply obeying the dictates of the Greek text. We cannot escape it any more than you
can.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
ok RJH, i will make this easy for you, here i quote from my book, New Testament
Greek, by D.F. Hudson, page 20, lesson 5.

The verb 'to be'

The verb 'to be', does not express action, but tells us something about the state
, condition or character of the subject. For example, The man is bad. John is a
doctor. Mary was in the house. He is ...[text shortened]... 20:38 there is no definite
article.

Now suck it up and study your Bible.

Okay, You are right that the personal pronoun "He" is the subject.

A personal pronoun refers to a specific person or thing and changes
its form to indicate person, number, gender, and case.

(That means it is definite, since it does not refer to just any person
or thing.)

Obviously the definite, personal pronoun "He" in this case refers to
the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. So is it correct to say that
the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is a god? To say, "He is a god"
implies to me that there are many gods. This is one reason I think it
should be, "He is not the God of the dead" instead of "He is not a god
of the dead" because the dead do not have any gods.

Look at the definition of the personal pronoun again. It means "He"
is substituting for a specific God, the God of the Holy Bible, so "He"
is not "a god", but "God" and we must add "the" in English to make
the sentence conform to correct grammer.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
ok Jaywill, i have made it quite clear, that in the case of John 1:1, third clause, 'theos' is an
indefinite predicate noun, why, because it describes a quality or characteristic of the
subject, in this instance, 'the Word', it states quite simply that the word belongs to a
particular class or category. That is what an indefinite predicate nou ...[text shortened]... obeying the dictates of the Greek text. We cannot escape it any more than you
can.

But here again you must assume that there are many gods. And we know
from scripture that there is only one God. And scripture goes on to say,
"He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him,
and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."
(John 1:3-4) So the Word created all things. And We also know from
scripture that God created all things. So Logic and reason tells us that
the Word is God. Here again we know there is only one God so we would
be wrong to say, "the Word is a god." We must say "the Word is God" or
"the Word is Deity" to be correct.

I have two instruction books on learning New Testament Greek and both
indicate you can not automatically assume that a noun is indefinite from
the absence of the definite article. A noun can be definite without a
definite article.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I think you should stop using the word Jehovah for God. It is known now
that it is not God's name. It never was and it will never be His name.
We know with absolute certainty that God's name is YH pronounced Yah
as in Hallelu Yah.

I think you should stop using the word Jehovah for God. It is known now
that it is not God's name. It never was and it will never be His name.
We know with absolute certainty that God's name is YH pronounced Yah
as in Hallelu Yah.

I do not share this concern you have.

YHWH, we all know is a non- pronouncable designation. Either Yahweh or Jehovah is communicative. And for me it simply is not a major issue that I use Jehovah along with some reputable English translations of Scripture.

I have no major objection to some Christains using Yah or Jah. I understand them. And concerning this I think we can be general.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
ok Jaywill, i have made it quite clear, that in the case of John 1:1, third clause, 'theos' is an
indefinite predicate noun, why, because it describes a quality or characteristic of the
subject, in this instance, 'the Word', it states quite simply that the word belongs to a
particular class or category. That is what an indefinite predicate nou obeying the dictates of the Greek text. We cannot escape it any more than you
can.

ok Jaywill, i have made it quite clear, that in the case of John 1:1, third clause, 'theos' is an indefinite predicate noun, why, because it describes a quality or characteristic of the subject, in this instance, 'the Word', it states quite simply that the word belongs to a particular class or category. That is what an indefinite predicate noun does. That is why we can state that the word is 'a god', 'is divine', 'is a mighty spiritual being', for its indicative of belonging to that category or class. We have no choice in translation, its simply obeying the dictates of the Greek text. We cannot escape it any more than you can.

But you have NOT addressed the questions concerning Isaiah and John 1:1 which I asked.

For me those issues do not simply, kind of, go away of themselves. I don't think you can answer those questions without exposing that your teaching is contrary to the clear word of Scripture.

And you are by no means, the first or the last person to come along boasting of Greek reading skills, who contradicts the Bible's overall revelation of the Triune God and of incarnation.

My admitted rustiness on Greek aside - Jehovah God stretched out the creation ALONE. And Jehovah asks the rhetorical question "Who was with Me?"

"I am Jehovah who makes all things, Who ALONE stretches out the heavens, Who spread out the earth (Who was with Me?)" (Isaiah 44:24)

Is there a god or God in John 1:1 Who was with Jehovah so that it is an untruth for Jehovah to say "I am Jehovah ... Who ALONE stretches out the heavens" ?

Identify that other god or God or theos that was with Jehovah in stretching out the heavens such that Isaiah 44:24 is not a true statement. Who is that other god ?

When Jehovah asks the rhetorical question "Who was with Me?" is there a god or God or theos in John 1:1 such that we can truthfully answer that THAT god or God or thoes was indeed WITH Jehovah ?

Identify the OTHER god who was WITH Jehovah.

Upon your translation of John 1:1 demonstrate that Identify the other God/god/ theos who is besides Jehovah so that we might inform Him Who was apart from Him:

"Thus says Jehovah the King of Israel, And the Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts,

I am the First and I am the Last, And apart from Me there is no God." (Isa. 44:6)

Does John 1:1 identify that other god/God/theos who is apart from Jehovah the First and the Last ?

A Yes or No will answer my question clearly.

Originally posted by jaywill

ok Jaywill, i have made it quite clear, that in the case of John 1:1, third clause, 'theos' is an indefinite predicate noun, why, because it describes a quality or characteristic of the subject, in this instance, 'the Word', it states quite simply that the word belongs to a particular class or category. That is what an indefinite predicate nou and the Last ?

A Yes or No will answer my question clearly.

Moses was told by God that his name was YH not YHWH. And YH is
not unpronounceable. I told you it is pronounced, like in Hallel Yah.
The Son of God said He came in His Fathers name, which means two
things. First, He came in the authority of His Father and second, He
had the Name of His Father, YAH. That is, Yah-shua. It was the Son
of God, the Word, that appeared to Moses in the form of the Angel of
the Lord and gave the Father's name YAH for Moses to tell the children of
Israel who had sent him to them. For no man has seen God the Father
at any time. It is the Son that has made Him known.

P.S. I think you are getting confused with this translation "the Word was
a god" making it sound like there is God and a god with God.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Okay, You are right that the personal pronoun "He" is the subject.

A personal pronoun refers to a specific person or thing and changes
its form to indicate person, number, gender, and case.

(That means it is definite, since it does not refer to just any person
or thing.)

Obviously the definite, personal pronoun "He" in this case refers to
the must add "the" in English to make
the sentence conform to correct grammer.

ok, ignore the Greek grammatical structure then, why not, your translators have done the same, why not you.

Originally posted by jaywill

ok Jaywill, i have made it quite clear, that in the case of John 1:1, third clause, 'theos' is an indefinite predicate noun, why, because it describes a quality or characteristic of the subject, in this instance, 'the Word', it states quite simply that the word belongs to a particular class or category. That is what an indefinite predicate nou ...[text shortened]... and the Last ?

A Yes or No will answer my question clearly.

yes that is because i am uninterested in the theological debates, i am solely presenting
my arguments on the basis of the Greek text and nothing else. Your theological
arguments may or may not be correct, that is not my affair. I am interested in bias in
translation, to what extent and why.

Originally posted by RJHinds
But here again you must assume that there are many gods. And we know
from scripture that there is only one God. And scripture goes on to say,
"He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him,
and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."
(John 1:3-4) So the Word created all things. And We also know fr he absence of the definite article. A noun can be definite without a
definite article.

i must assume nothing, i am interested in what the text actually says, your theological
arguments mean nothing in this context.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
ok, ignore the Greek grammatical structure then, why not, your translators have done the same, why not you.

I have not ignored the Greek grammatical structure. I have even consulted
books on grammer of New testament Greek and found nothing that convinced
me that you are correct in your translation. But I did find things that
convinced me that you were wrong. And besides that the text does not
make sense in English if translated the way you said because the Holy Bible
constantly says there in only one God. Your translation requires God to
have existed in the beginning with another God or a god. So are you saying
there is a false god with the true God? What are you saying in plain english?