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-Removed-if a thread was written about 'evil christianity' and several examples of cruelty within the christian church were given and the poster spoke as if it was the whole of christianity that was cruel, you would be quick to point out that this is not the case and that the violent actions of some do not reflect the view of the whole of christianity.
people responding to this post who would have a melt down if the whole of chritianity was called evil are speaking about islam as if the whole of islam is evil. people should choose their words more carefully. im fully aware that some parts of islam are violent and cruel. im also aware that there are lots of nice muslims just as there are lots of nice christians.
it would appear that if one does not instantly condemn the whole of islam posters like rajk999 or whatever its called, knees jerk so hard that they struggle to type their reactionary nonsense through their teary eyed self inflicted knee to the face concussion.
- Joined
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-Removed-But stellspalfie, that is exactly what happens here everytime one of you atheists starts quoting the OT flood or sonhouse goes into one about shekels and slaves etc. All the Christians here are tarred with the same brush as if we approve of people being stoned to death.
this is not the same!!! how many quotes from the koran have you seen posted?? do you see poster whacking up crazy bits of the koran and pulling them apart? nope.
whats usually happens on here is news links to atrocities committed by islamic terror groups and them comments directed at the whole of islam based on the actions of these groups. i dont really see atheists doing this to christianity. like you say the atheist on here usually take the actual bible itself to task.
im sorry if you feel like the atheist tar you all with the same brush. that is not the actual case, i personally and i think some of the other atheists make a clear distinction between the christians. id put you and suzianne in one little box (normalish box) and the rest in another (crazy box), maybe rj in his own (crazy and stupid) box.
Originally posted by stellspalfieThis has been done already and discussed at length some years ago on this site. Google it and read the Koran for yourself.
.. how many quotes from the koran have you seen posted?? do you see poster whacking up crazy bits of the koran and pulling them apart? nope. ...
Here is one extract:
Does the Quran really contain dozens of verses promoting violence?
Summary Answer:
The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.
Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.
The context of violent passages is more ambiguous than might be expected of a perfect book from a loving God, however this can work both ways. Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's call to arms according to their own moral preconceptions about justifiable violence. Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.
Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad's own martial legacy - and that of his companions - along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.
Continued here:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm
The Quran:
Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.
Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."
Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.
Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah'😉.
Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle, as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. Here is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.
Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"
Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."
Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).
Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?
Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.
Originally posted by Rajk999So what they need is the Islamic version of the new testament, the kinder and gentler one the NT supposedly has.
The Quran:
Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for ...[text shortened]... very fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.
What would be even better would be to have a time machine and go back and off that idiot Mohammed.
Originally posted by sonhouseI dont think that the OT is as bad as the Koran. In the OT there are instructions to certain people to kill a speciic tribe etc. It does not apply across the board to all people. If it did then the followers of the OT [like th Jews] would have been as bad as the Muslims.
So what they need is the Islamic version of the new testament, the kinder and gentler one the NT supposedly has.
What would be even better would be to have a time machine and go back and off that idiot Mohammed.
As for your second sentence you well know that you can be beheaded in some countries for saying that 😀
Originally posted by Rajk999Yes, I don't think I would say that on a street corner in Saudi.....
I dont think that the OT is as bad as the Koran. In the OT there are instructions to certain people to kill a speciic tribe etc. It does not apply across the board to all people. If it did then the followers of the OT [like th Jews] would have been as bad as the Muslims.
As for your second sentence you well know that you can be beheaded in some countries for saying that 😀
Even if he WAS a TOTAL idiot. Actually I think he is worse than Hitler.
At least we dealt with Hitler in one generation. THAT assshole and a world class ASSSHOLE he was, keeps on ticking, like a bomb that keeps going off, like they are doing as we speak.
One thing that gets me: Sunni's and Shiites, supposedly following the same god but here they are killing each other. Such a religion of peace, eh.
That would be like Baptists bombing Methodists or some such.
It is just further proof for me there is no god involved in ANY of these so-called religions, Judaism, Christianity, Muslim, Hindi ALL compose of just plain BS. Billions of people at each other's throats. SURE, a GOD would call for that.
In a pigs ass it would.
Originally posted by Rajk999No comments from Islam's supporters on these quotes?
The Quran:
Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for ...[text shortened]... very fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.