1. Standard memberRajk999
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    08 Jan '14 23:141 edit
    SUDAN: BRUTAL TORTURE OF HUNDREDS OF CONVERTS OUT OF ISLAM UNDER THE SHARIA

    "After her family in Khartoum, Sudan nearly buried her alive for leaving Islam and authorities imprisoned her for six months...."

    In just 2011-2012 alone, 170 people in Sudan were accused of "apostasy." The vicious implementation of sharia against Christians has worsened since southern Sudan freed itself and voted for secession from the brutal and bloody Islamic north.

    The president Omar Al-Bashir has already stated more than once that he wishes to make Sudan "a Muslim state" with no equality of rights for members of other religious communities, reports the Pro Oriente foundation.

    According to Sharia law, the death penalty is given denouncing Islam in Sudan, although the country has signed the Universal declaration of human rights. For the last 20 years, no respective sentences have been passed; however, in only 2011 and 2012, about 170 people were accused of "apostasy" and arrested. According to non-governmental organizations that are active in Sudan, the authorities have arranged an intensive search for converts. The search is concentrated mainly in the Nuba mountains, where the separatist movement is strong. Since 2011, the number of closed and confiscated church buildings and other Christian institutions has been increasing. Arrests of Christians take place regularly. In April last year, the government openly declared that there would be no permits for building of Christian churches any more.
    Here is the story of one woman who escaped Islam.

    Sudanese Woman Faces Ordeal as Convert from Islam
    Long before current crackdown in Sudan, society punished ‘apostates.’ By Our Sudan Correspondent
    South Sudan map: CDCJUBA, South Sudan, September 20, 2013 (Morning Star News) – After her family in Khartoum, Sudan nearly buried her alive for leaving Islam and authorities imprisoned her for six months, a Sudanese Christian thought she might find refuge in Ethiopia.

    She had fled to Ethiopia in 2010, five years after putting her faith in Christ. By the following year, she found herself face-to-face with hostile Sudanese officials.

    “Some security personnel from the Sudan Embassy in Addis Ababa informed me that I must leave Ethiopia because I was an infidel,” the 35-year-old woman, whose name is withheld for security reasons, told Morning Star News.

    Now in South Sudan, which split from Sudan on July 9, 2011, she still lives in hiding. Sudanese Muslims in South Sudan, she says, are monitoring her movements.

    She had come to faith when a Christian woman told her about the sacrificial death and resurrection of Jesus, and soon she began attending church. When her family learned of her conversion, she said, they locked her in a dark room for six months and arranged visits from an Islamic sheikh who struck her 10 times each day.

    “After six months, I was released and was very frustrated and went into hiding, but my family discovered where I was hiding in Khartoum and reported to the police that I had left Islam,” she said.

    Her family learned of her hiding place, found and beat her, and threw her from a second floor landing.

    “I was bleeding and my ribs were broken,” she said, tears streaming from her eyes.

    Family members threatened to charge her with apostasy unless she repented and returned to Islam, telling her, “You are an infidel, you are no longer a good Muslim,” she said. Apostasy is punishable by death in Sudan, which upholds sharia (Islamic law) as a source of legislation, according to the U.S. Department of State.

    “They called a Muslim sheikh to force me to repent and come back to Islam, but I refused the attempt,” she said, adding that the sheikh would later accuse her of “being possessed by an evil spirit, which he said was a Christian evil spirit.”

    Family members hid her in the trunk of their car and took her home with the intent of burying her alive, she said. She felt close to death, she said, and by keeping her hidden, the family hoped Muslim neighbors would accept that her absence meant she had met her expected end as an apostate. The neighbors, however, called police.

    “They dug the grave, and as they were putting me into the grave, the police entered the house,” she said. “I believe it was the Lord Jesus who made the police arrive on time and saved me from that inevitable death.”

    Officers arrested family members for attempted murder, but they were later released.

    After a few days of recovery, she managed to escape again; this time, security officials endeavored to track her down.

    “Security started to search for me everywhere, accusing me of leaving Islam,” she said. When National Intelligence and Security Services (NISS) officials caught up with her four years later, in early 2009, they incarcerated her for one month, she said.

    After her release, in March 2009 she tried to flee the country by air. Authorities were notified, removed her from an airliner about to take off from Khartoum International Airport and confiscated her passport.

    During interrogation, NISS personnel tortured her as punishment for leaving Islam and trying to flee the country, she said. She was imprisoned for another six months at Omdurman Prison for Women.

    “The security officials took my documents, and after serving six months of imprisonment, I decided to go into hiding and sought refuge in the house of some Christians in Khartoum who gave me food and shelter and took care for me,” she said.

    These ordeals took place before the 2011 secession that opened the way for harsher treatment of Christians in Sudan, as President Omar al Bashir vowed to adopt a stricter version of sharia (Islamic law) and recognize only Islamic culture and the Arabic language. The estimated 300,000 to 500,000 Christians in Sudan have suffered increased arrests and deportations and destruction of church buildings and affiliated centers, and foreign Christians have been driven out, church leaders say. In a report issued in April, Christian Solidarity Worldwide noted an increase in arrests, detentions and deportations of Christians since December 2012.

    Freedom of religion is a key provision of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, to which Sudan is a signatory. Due to its treatment of Christians and other human rights violations, Sudan has been designated a Country of Particular Concern by the U.S. State Department since 1999, and in April the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom recommended the country remain on the list this year.

    After her six months in prison, eventually the convert from Islam managed to cross into neighboring Ethiopia by land in 2010, only to encounter more threatening Sudanese officials. Even now in predominantly Christian and animist South Sudan, she describes her life as “fear and agony,” as there seems to be nowhere to hide from hostile Islamists.

    [http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2013/09/sudan-brutal-torture-of-hundreds-of-converts-out-of-islam-under-the-sharia.html]
  2. Standard memberRajk999
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    09 Jan '14 00:111 edit
    Is it bigotry or fear-mongering for the people in the story to relate their experiences and to warn others of the dangers inherent in Islamic regimes?
  3. Subscribersonhouse
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    09 Jan '14 00:29
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    [b]Is it bigotry or fear-mongering for the people in the story to relate their experiences and to warn others of the dangers inherent in Islamic regimes?[/b]
    MONGERING? How bout 'telling it like it is'? Is the gist of your OP a pejorative on the people telling the story? Like it doesn't matter that such things happen to people, no matter where?

    Are we to just accept such barbarism? I don't think so.

    Islam is not the religion of peace, they came out of the gate fighting 1500 years ago and are at it still.

    There are pacified Muslims for sure, but to what extent are they owned by their Imam's? How many would take up arms, say in Toronto or France, if called upon to do so, formerly peace loving people now pressured to fight other people's imagined battles?
  4. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    09 Jan '14 00:33
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    [b]Is it bigotry or fear-mongering for the people in the story to relate their experiences and to warn others of the dangers inherent in Islamic regimes?[/b]
    It is only fear-mongering if the facts are misrepresented and/or blown out of proportion. It is a difficult thing to confirm.

    Myself, I am no longer comfortable singling out 'Islamic' governments as abusive when my own government imprisons people without trial and/or kills them at whim with drones.
  5. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    09 Jan '14 00:46
    Is this spirituality?
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    09 Jan '14 00:56
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    It is only fear-mongering if the facts are misrepresented and/or blown out of proportion. It is a difficult thing to confirm.

    Myself, I am no longer comfortable singling out 'Islamic' governments as abusive when my own government imprisons people without trial and/or kills them at whim with drones.
    Context is also key.

    Their is the old adage about one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.

    Which is far from always being true, but it is sometimes true.

    The Germans would have regarded the French Resistance as being terrorists during WW2.

    How different is it when Afghanis target allied troops?


    I would also like to point out that correlation does not always equal or imply causation.

    That they were Islamic and terrorists does not necessarily mean that they are terrorists
    because they are Islamic.

    There are over a billion Muslims in the world, and only a tiny tiny minority are terrorists.

    So I think that before you go ahead and say that they are terrorists because they are Muslim
    you need to look at what other factors made them part of the tiny minority and not the vast majority.




    I of course do not like ANY religion, and Islam is certainly no exception.

    But that also means I must be extra cautious about attributing the blame for a persons actions to their religion
    because I have a predisposition to dislike the religion.

    Opinions should be based on properly analysed and contextualised evidence and not upon anecdote and cherry picked
    data.


    And the fact is there are billions of Muslims and there are thousands of terrorists [dependent on how you define terrorist]

    Which means that any given Muslim is something like 6 orders of magnitude more likely to not be a terrorist
    than they are to be a terrorist.



    Most primarily Muslim countries are for historical and geographical reasons technologically and culturally backwards
    with lots of inequality, poverty, and lack of education... ect.

    These are all factors known to increase the amount of crime and disorder.


    And while I am sure that just like any other religion [to varying degrees] Islam doesn't help.

    It is also most likely not the biggest problem.


    And the other problems are much easier to solve than trying to stop people believing their religion.
  7. Standard memberRajk999
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    09 Jan '14 01:54
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    MONGERING? How bout 'telling it like it is'? Is the gist of your OP a pejorative on the people telling the story? Like it doesn't matter that such things happen to people, no matter where?

    Are we to just accept such barbarism? I don't think so.

    Islam is not the religion of peace, they came out of the gate fighting 1500 years ago and are at it still. ...[text shortened]... n to do so, formerly peace loving people now pressured to fight other people's imagined battles?
    So its fine to relate your experience with the violent side of Islam without being accused of bigotry or fear-mongering. I gather that is what you are saying.
  8. Standard memberRajk999
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    09 Jan '14 01:55
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    It is only fear-mongering if the facts are misrepresented and/or blown out of proportion. It is a difficult thing to confirm.

    Myself, I am no longer comfortable singling out 'Islamic' governments as abusive when my own government imprisons people without trial and/or kills them at whim with drones.
    For the people concerned it is a fact for them. So therefore its not fear-mongering or bigotry as far as they are concerned.
  9. Standard memberRajk999
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    09 Jan '14 01:59
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    Is this spirituality?
    One religion killing and torturing people for converting to another, is not a valid topic for this forum?

    Is it because Islam is the perpetrator you are questioning its validity as a 'spirituality' topic. If Christianity were the guilty party would you question it?
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    09 Jan '14 03:052 edits
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    It is only fear-mongering if the facts are misrepresented and/or blown out of proportion. It is a difficult thing to confirm.

    Myself, I am no longer comfortable singling out 'Islamic' governments as abusive when my own government imprisons people without trial and/or kills them at whim with drones.
    Does an article entitled "SUDAN: BRUTAL TORTURE OF HUNDREDS OF CONVERTS OUT OF ISLAM UNDER THE SHARIA" that does not even mention no less provide details or evidence of the "brutal torture of hundreds of converts" count as fear-mongering?

    Remarkable how hatred seems to render Islamaphobes dead from the neck up.
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    09 Jan '14 07:412 edits
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Does an article entitled "SUDAN: BRUTAL TORTURE OF HUNDREDS OF CONVERTS OUT OF ISLAM UNDER THE SHARIA" that does not even mention no less provide details or evidence of the "brutal torture of hundreds of converts" count as fear-mongering?

    Remarkable how hatred seems to render Islamaphobes dead from the neck up.
    What goes on in the Sudan under shiara law has been well documented for decades and yet here you are calling someone an "Islamaphobe" for pointing it out; and calling someone else a bigot elsewhere for doing the same. I find it disturbing that your world view allows you to do this.
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    09 Jan '14 12:38
    Originally posted by divegeester
    What goes on in the Sudan under shiara law has been well documented for decades and yet here you are calling someone an "Islamaphobe" for pointing it out; and calling someone else a bigot elsewhere for doing the same. I find it disturbing that your world view allows you to do this.
    From what I can tell, the article published on "Atlas Shrugs" basically combined two articles entitled "FOR 2011-2012 170 PEOPLE IN SUDAN ACCUSED OF 'APOSTASY'" and "Sudanese Woman Faces Ordeal as Convert from Islam" without giving proper acknowledgement and retitled it as "Sudan: Brutal torture of hundreds of converts out of Islam under the sharia" despite the fact that NONE of the text even MENTIONS no less provide details or evidence of the "brutal torture of hundreds of converts". Giving it such a title is misleading and serves to inflame. The fact that someone copied it and posted it on this forum with the title "Sudan: brutal torture of hundreds of converts" is evidence that such underhanded tactics work as idiotic as it is.
  13. Standard memberRajk999
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    09 Jan '14 12:532 edits
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    From what I can tell, the article published on "Atlas Shrugs" basically combined two articles entitled "FOR 2011-2012 170 PEOPLE IN SUDAN ACCUSED OF 'APOSTASY'" and "Sudanese Woman Faces Ordeal as Convert from Islam" without giving proper acknowledgement and retitled it as "Sudan: Brutal torture of hundreds of converts out of Islam under the sharia" despi ...[text shortened]... ure of hundreds of converts" is evidence that such underhanded tactics work as idiotic as it is.
    'Inflame' is good. It drives people to act against the crookedness and evil of Islam.

    People like you and others here try to hide and cover up the actions of their brothers in arms and the murderous Islamic regimes. But that wont last. The truth must come out.
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    09 Jan '14 12:53
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    Context is also key.

    Their is the old adage about one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.

    Which is far from always being true, but it is sometimes true.

    The Germans would have regarded the French Resistance as being terrorists during WW2.

    How different is it when Afghanis target allied troops?


    I would also like to point out tha ...[text shortened]... the other problems are much easier to solve than trying to stop people believing their religion.
    Who on earth gave this carefully crafted and insightful post a thumbs down? And why?

    Was it because their should have been there?

    Penguin
  15. Standard memberRajk999
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    09 Jan '14 12:57
    Originally posted by Penguin
    Who on earth gave this carefully crafted and insightful post a thumbs down? And why?

    Was it because their should have been there?

    Penguin
    Since I started this thread I might be the first suspect. So let me say that I almost never get involved in this thumbs down and thumbs up foolishness. If I have to compliment or condemn a post I say it in a reply.
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