Suicide on 9/11 - Damned?

Originally posted by RBHILL
Read the edit. I did.

And I know because God isn't going to send 6 year old that kill themselves to hell if they are saved or not.

I heard of a girl who stold in front of a train once to save her mother from the HIV.

Originally posted by no1marauder
I see. Your doctrine is if someone says they are saved they can stick a couple of two years old into a furnace and still wind up in Heaven if they get hit by a bus 5 minutes later.

Would any sane "Christians" care to answer?

Q: If I commit a sin just before I die, and I don't have time to confess it to God or get His forgiveness, does that mean I won't go to heaven? — G.P.


A: Dear G.P.,
No, it does not. If you have truly given your life to Jesus Christ and are trusting Him alone for your salvation, then He has cleansed you of all your sins—past, present and future. When we came to Christ, "God ... forgave us all our sins" (Colossians 2:13).

You see, your salvation depends on only one thing: what Jesus Christ accomplished when He died on the cross for us. Why did He do that? He did it for one reason: so He could become the final and complete sacrifice for all our sins. He was without sin, but on the cross all your sins and my sins were placed on Him, and He died in our place. As the Bible says, "Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God" (1 Peter 3:18).

Now God offers us salvation as a free gift—a gift that Jesus Christ has already purchased for us. What must we do in response? We must reach out in faith and accept it as our own, and that is what I invite you to do today. God loves you and yearns for you to spend eternity with Him in heaven. Ask Christ to come into your life and forgive all your sins—and He will.

Yes, we need to seek God's forgiveness whenever we sin so our fellowship with Him will be restored. But when we know Christ, we know our relationship with Him will never change. Make sure of your salvation by trusting Christ and receiving Him into your heart and life today.

http://billygraham.com/MyAnswer_Article.asp?ArticleID=1956

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
How can you deduce the jumper's intention? Isn't is possible that their intentions were to escape the deadly flames? That is, couldn't their intentions for jumping have been the preservation of their life, especially if they had assessed that they would live longer by taking that route?

Why do you say the jumpers intended to end their life? ...[text shortened]... y knew the consequences of their actions? That doesn't distinguish them from those who stayed.

In law, one is considered to intend the forseeable consequences of their actions. Your objections are mere bickering; I am trying to understand the Christian suicide doctrine while you seem to be implying there is no such thing as suicide. You have apparently been hanging around Coletti too much.

Originally posted by RBHILL
Q: If I commit a sin just before I die, and I don't have time to confess it to God or get His forgiveness, does that mean I won't go to heaven? — G.P.


A: Dear G.P.,
No, it does not. If you have truly given your life to Jesus Christ and are trusting Him alone for your salvation, then He has cleansed you of all your sins—past, present and future. When ...[text shortened]... m into your heart and life today.

http://billygraham.com/MyAnswer_Article.asp?ArticleID=1956

Do you ever think for yourself? Obviously not. So mass child murder is not an impediment to Heaven in your view. Thanks for sharing.

The perpetrators might argue that Dr. S's observation implies that the victims must deserve Hell, since they were in a situation from which it was logically impossible to escape damnation. Of course, the attack also involved suicide on the part of the perpetrators.

If dying for a cause earns one a place in paradise, surely being damned to hell (as by suicide, of which suicide bombing is an instance) for a cause is a step further, and also deserves a place in paradise.

See, it's fun to carry stupid beliefs to their ridiculous conclusions.

Originally posted by no1marauder
In law, one is considered to intend the forseeable consequences of their actions..

But this was the very point of my first post. The forseeable consequences of staying were death. Thus, one who stayed intended to die.

I was pointing out that those who believe that the jumpers are eternally damned are also logically committed to believing that those who didn't are eternally damned, because both committed suicide. In other words, my contribution to this thread is the observation of particular constraints that logical responses must conform to. Illogical responses remain free to violate them.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Do you ever think for yourself? Obviously not. So mass child murder is not an impediment to Heaven in your view. Thanks for sharing.

Romans 8:1

That is all I have to say.

Originally posted by RBHILL
Romans 8:1

That is all I have to say.

Recced for irony.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
But this was the very point of my first post. The forseeable consequences of staying were death. Thus, one who stayed intended to die.

I was pointing out that those who believe that the jumpers are eternally damned are also logically committed to believing that those who didn't are eternally damned, because both committed suicide. In other wor ...[text shortened]... ts that logical responses must conform to. Illogical responses are remain free to violate them.

It's going off on a tangent; I am more interested in the fate of the jumpers than the ones who didn't jump. If one of our "Christian" friends wants to argue that the jumpers are eternally damned, then your point concerning the ones who didn't would be relevant but it is not now since no one has said even the jumpers would be eternally damned.

Originally posted by RBHILL
Romans 8:1

That is all I have to say.

Good.

Originally posted by RBHILL

I heard of a girl who stold in front of a train once to save her mother from the HIV.

I cannot comprehend this act of heroism. Could you say some more about it?

Dr. S

P.S. It always tickles my funny bone when people use the definite article when referring to diseases and afflictions, like "I've got a bad case of the dyslexia."

P.P.S. Did you mean the TGV?

Originally posted by no1marauder
It's going off on a tangent; I am more interested in the fate of the jumpers than the ones who didn't jump. If one of our "Christian" friends wants to argue that the jumpers are eternally damned, then your point concerning the ones who didn't would be relevant but it is not now since no one has said even the jumpers would be eternally damned.

OK, I'll come back when the Catholics start to post.

Originally posted by no1marauder
I see. Your doctrine is if someone says they are saved they can stick a couple of two years old into a furnace and still wind up in Heaven if they get hit by a bus 5 minutes later.

Would any sane "Christians" care to answer?

Putting people into furnaces isn't that ungodly.

From the Catholic Catechism, section 1034:
Jesus often speaks of "Gehenna" of "the unquenchable fire" reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost. Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire," and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"

http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/art12.html

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
I cannot comprehend this act of heroism. Could you say some more about it?

Dr. S

P.S. It always tickles my funny bone when people use the definite article when referring to diseases and afflictions, like "I've got a bad case of the dyslexia."

P.P.S. Did you mean the TGV?

HIV=Aids

Originally posted by no1marauder
I see. Your doctrine is if someone says they are saved they can stick a couple of two years old into a furnace and still wind up in Heaven if they get hit by a bus 5 minutes later.

Would any sane "Christians" care to answer?

Strawman on your part.