Originally posted by Bosse de NageThe historical Buddha was concerned first and foremost with human suffering, and in his analysis this has everything to do with our relationship to our thought process (i.e. believing everything we think) and identification with ego. We get pulled around by anger and desire, leading to actions that cause continual suffering for ourselves and others.
Are the toxic thoughts disadvantageous more than the act of suicide? How do toxic thoughts affect the rebirth process? (Do they make one of the lights seem more attractive...?)
As for the rebirth process this is, um, more folkloric than scientific, if you know what I mean. In the days that the Buddha lived, and in his culture, there was a belief that something we might call a soul was trying to escape being reborn into this world, and these soul-thingees are weighed down by our thoughts and our actions. So a great emphasis was placed on the state of one's mind at the moment of death, in hopes of escaping rebirth and another lifetime of suffering.
Personally, I don't go in for this life-hating stuff.
Originally posted by AlgernonAlgernon: " ...... in his analysis this has everything to do with our relationship to our thought process (i.e. believing everything we think) and identification with ego."
The historical Buddha was concerned first and foremost with human suffering, and in his analysis this has everything to do with our relationship to our thought process (i.e. believing everything we think) and identification with ego. We get pulled around by anger and desire, leading to actions that cause continual suffering for ourselves and others.
A ...[text shortened]... rth and another lifetime of suffering.
Personally, I don't go in for this life-hating stuff.
Is it possible you could elaborate on the relationship between a human being and his thought process in the context of suffering.
Originally posted by AlgernonCould you give an example of a thought causing suffering ?
Sure. Broad topic, though. Any specific questions arising from this thread?
Does thinking the truth or thinking lies have anything to do with it ?
Does having continuous hatefull or angry thoughts for instance cause suffering ?
Originally posted by ivanhoeDoes having continuous hatefull or angry thoughts for instance cause suffering?
Could you give an example of a thought causing suffering ?
Does thinking the truth or thinking lies have anything to do with it ?
Does having continuous hatefull or angry thoughts for instance cause suffering ?
They are suffering. Acting on them causes more suffering. And more thinking. And more suffering.
Does thinking the truth or thinking lies have anything to do with it?
Everything. So does thinking about thinking.
Could you give an example of a thought causing suffering?
I wish I didn't have to be here right now.
Originally posted by AlgernonAre there any links to Christ's teachings in this regard ?
[b]Does having continuous hatefull or angry thoughts for instance cause suffering?
They are suffering. Acting on them causes more suffering. And more thinking. And more suffering.
Does thinking the truth or thinking lies have anything to do with it?
Everything. So does thinking about thinking.
Could you give an example of a thought causing suffering?
I wish I didn't have to be here right now.[/b]
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Originally posted by LordOfTheChessboardSame question for you.
craving is a very important cause for suffering. We constantly want things we can not get. We want to get grip on the constantly changing world. This is impossible and leads to suffering.
Are there any links to Christ's teachings in this regard ?
Originally posted by XanthosNZWhen a society concerning itself with merely what is good for its continued survival, there is one major concern: Ensuring that the society does not die off.
So in this society being gay would be illegal? That doesn't increase the members of the society so it should be illegal right?
As should making a decision to not have children? And birthcontrol should be outlawed as well right?
Well that sounds like a utopia.
There are multiple facets of this concern.
1.) Preventing the death of members. Each death results in a smaller society. Without trying to prevent the death of members, no matter the cause, the society is guaranteed to eventually fail.
a.) Deaths caused by members of the society to members of the society (whether self or other) are not only bad, but are counterproductive. This is a case of the society actively destroying itself. Further, if members of the society do not feel protected from others, they are more likely to flee the society for safer grounds. If members witness others taking their own lives with no negative effects, it becomes easier to contemplate suicide. Too many deaths (suicide or homocide) will result in a society too small to provide for its members, or will result in the society disbanding.
b.) Deaths caused by outside sources to the society are obviously bad. In these cases, the members of the society must work together to stop, avoid, or divert these deaths. Failure to do so is similar to allowing the self-inflicted wounds of homocide and suicide.
2.) Encouraging members to stay in the group and/or recruiting new members. This is accomplished by providing benefits to the members, such as protection from the outside, and other benefits of having a group working together. Without this, the society would disband.
3.) Eventually, this society will grow to fill its natural boundaries (the physical home of the society). At that point, the society will need to either expand, or hold its population at a steady point by lessening the number of new members. Overpopulation will lead to the destruction of the society if it is not reacted to, much as herds of deer who eat all the vegetation unchecked with then die in mass quantities, the members of the society will eventually suffer if the population isn't kept in check. If they make to the "starving" side of things, then the members will (rightfully so) place blame on the society, resulting in its demise, or the death of the members.
Being gay is not naturally productive, but neither is it destructive. So long as those who are not procreating are sufficiently contributing to the society, and are not causing harm to the society, it fits in with the above; the same as post-menopausal women and anyone who is infertile.
Once the society reaches the point of needing population control, individuals would be encouraged control their procreation.
An important note, however, is that if at the point of needing population control the society were to allow suicide with no repercussions, it follows that larger and larger numbers of people will accept that solution to their problems. While this won't be an immediate problem, once the population is significantly lowered, the restrictions on suicide will need to be re-implemented, or the society will eventually kill itself.
Originally posted by ivanhoeIm no expert on christs teachings but im sure they have some common grounds. If I am right about jezus being a socialist and pacifist then he had this in common with buddhism.
Same question for you.
Are there any links to Christ's teachings in this regard ?
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Originally posted by The Chess Express>In N.Z. I think we have problems with excess pride which in the past has failed to recognise many issues such as this.If you don't make the cut then good luck.Sure our pride may have caused us to deal with it....for sake of not wanting such bad stats....but it don't seem right to me.Bound to be many reasons.
There are many different reasons for suicide as has been pointed out all ready. Suicide to protest a war or end horrible suffering are tuff calls. I really don't know. God does. For most suicides, the kind that happens when people feel that their personal problems are too much, I believe that their death doesn't solve anything. Somehow, they carr ...[text shortened]... riendly people and open culture, I would've thought that NZ would have a very low suicide rate.
>For the individual I guess a combination of loss,limited options and not being able to see hope in the future.In reverse you give them solid hope and open up their options.When they are able to breath again then they can choose a life for themselves with the added bonus of knowing what it's all about.
>I'm not guilty of not caring for my friends that died.What I am guilty of is a lack of intelegence to understand the help I gave only supported them....not help them get out.Sure it is a decision they have to make to live life,but if you love someone then that's what you help them with.
>No I'm not suicidal and I don't know anyone who is.It's just I know some people are.If suicide is/was on your plate....be it yourself or another....then I want to hear your own thoughts here.This is a serious topic so I'd prefer people with experience to discuss it.