Suicide

Originally posted by Kaboooomba
why do you think so many children (and others) find 'bullying' acceptable behaviour?

As children, we're still learning about the world around us, testing the limits to see what we can and can't do. That includes manipulating other people. Bullying is one form of manipulation. What needs to happen is the bully's parents need to explain that bullying isn't an acceptable behavior. But with so many parents backing away from disciplining their children now-a-days, these bullys never get the correction they need, and so they keep doing it because it works on most people.
The Bible teaches that to spare the rod is the spoil the child. This means that we are to discipline our children when they need it. Children need to know where the boundries are. If their parents don't show them the boundries, they will keep pushing until they find one somewhere. Frequently, that's the law, and by then it's too late, the behavior pattern has been established and it's much much harder to break.

DF

Originally posted by DragonFriend
As children, we're still learning about the world around us, testing the limits to see what we can and can't do. That includes manipulating other people. Bullying is one form of manipulation. What needs to happen is the bully's parents need to explain that bullying isn't an acceptable behavior. But with so many parents backing away from disciplining the ...[text shortened]... ate, the behavior pattern has been established and it's much much harder to break.

DF

What a crock ...

DF I think you were born in the wrong era. You're like some sort of 18th century throwback.

Corporal punishment of the sort you're suggesting (via you're unthinking acceptance of biblical statements) has an adult (big and mature) being physically violent towards a child (small and developing). The power structure here is so out of whack here that it's outrageous.
And what do we get from such 'discipline'?
The 'You hit me and I'll hit you back' mentality - which works so well doesn't it. Insert any war here ...

Might I suggest that hitting a child is the reserve of the person who can't be bothered trying alternatives. Might I suggest that hitting a child is the realm of the true bully.

I don't hit my kids.
Which isn't to say that I don't dicipline or punish them. I do.

Originally posted by DragonFriend
As children, we're still learning about the world around us, testing the limits to see what we can and can't do. That includes manipulating other people. Bullying is one form of manipulation. What needs to happen is the bully's parents need to explain that bullying isn't an acceptable behavior. But with so many parents backing away from disciplining the ...[text shortened]... ate, the behavior pattern has been established and it's much much harder to break.

DF

what you talk about is common knowledge to most parents and can only be pushed so far as some parents are not willing/able to live your expectations. have you ever meet families that are brought up through gangs? most of these children and parents do not have the ability to preform your expectations... their life is already written.
you have gone a step ahead of the question i asked and gone onto punnishing these children. it isn't those 12 year old kids fault that they have acted the way they did... it's our fault.

Originally posted by amannion
What a crock ...

DF I think you were born in the wrong era. You're like some sort of 18th century throwback.

Corporal punishment of the sort you're suggesting (via you're unthinking acceptance of biblical statements) has an adult (big and mature) being physically violent towards a child (small and developing). The power structure here is so out of wha ...[text shortened]... on't hit my kids.
Which isn't to say that I don't dicipline or punish them. I do.

if i ever have children i will smack them.

Originally posted by amannion
What a crock ...

DF I think you were born in the wrong era. You're like some sort of 18th century throwback.

Corporal punishment of the sort you're suggesting (via you're unthinking acceptance of biblical statements) has an adult (big and mature) being physically violent towards a child (small and developing). The power structure here is so out of wha ...[text shortened]... on't hit my kids.
Which isn't to say that I don't dicipline or punish them. I do.

You assume too much.
Yes, I'm in favor of spanking, but 'spare the rod spoil the child' is about discipline, not violence. If a parent can show their child the boundries in a way the child can accept without spanking/violence, then do it. The point is to show the child the boundries. How that is done is of little consequence as long as it gets done. Too many parents today don't even bother to try.

DF

Pssst...
Your distaste for all things Christian is showing!

Originally posted by Kaboooomba
what you talk about is common knowledge to most parents and can only be pushed so far as some parents are not willing/able to live your expectations. have you ever meet families that are brought up through gangs? most of these children and parents do not have the ability to preform your expectations... their life is already written.
you have go ...[text shortened]... it isn't those 12 year old kids fault that they have acted the way they did... it's our fault.

I agree there are places in our society (I'm speaking of the U.S. here) where it is very difficult to raise children, yes. But even in those circumstances, a disciplined child stands a better change of success than an undisciplined one.

I agree whole heartedly that it's not the fault of the 12 year old kids. In my eyes, the fault lies squarely on their parents.

DF

Originally posted by DragonFriend
I agree there are places in our society (I'm speaking of the U.S. here) where it is very difficult to raise children, yes. But even in those circumstances, a disciplined child stands a better change of success than an undisciplined one.

I agree whole heartedly that it's not the fault of the 12 year old kids. In my eyes, the fault lies squarely on their parents.

DF

you are never going to make all parents to do what you expect. the ones that don't are the ones who are going to have the bullying children. it is still good what you are saying... i don't doubt that, but it won't do much to stop bullying.

i guess the area i got concerned about when i heard of this girl is those in society that the 'bully' kids look up to. this is what i believe makes these children think it is acceptable to behave in this maner.

Originally posted by DragonFriend
How that is done is of little consequence as long as it gets done

Of course it's of consequence. If you apply physical means of discipline to a child it will grow up accepting that smacking is okay. You clearly have no concept of what poor choice of discipline can do to a child, you're living in some Victorian workhouse ethic.

Originally posted by Starrman
Of course it's of consequence. If you apply physical means of discipline to a child it will grow up accepting that smacking is okay. You clearly have no concept of what poor choice of discipline can do to a child, you're living in some Victorian workhouse ethic.

And I suppose your opinion is the ONLY way to raise a child PROPERLY.
Generation upon generation in this country has been raised with spanking and we turned out OK. Now that we've this new "enlightened" way of raising our children to where we don't hurt the little egos, we're seeing kids taking guns to school and killing each other. Never before in the history of this nation has this happened and I suppose its only a coincidence that its happening during this change in child discipline. Pleeeeeeze.

DF

Originally posted by DragonFriend
And I suppose your opinion is the ONLY way to raise a child PROPERLY.
Generation upon generation in this country has been raised with spanking and we turned out OK. Now that we've this new "enlightened" way of raising our children to where we don't hurt the little egos, we're seeing kids taking guns to school and killing each other. Never before in the ...[text shortened]... a coincidence that its happening during this change in child discipline. Pleeeeeeze.

DF

Did you REALLY turn out OK (I don't mean you personally but the generation you speak of.) War, violence, drug abuse, murder, bigotry don't seem to have just appeared from nowhere - they've been around for a while.

Kids take guns to school in the US because there's guns to take to school - which as an aside has to be the stupidest amendment to a constitution there ever was. No you might be right, maybe kids never took guns to school before - or alternatively maybe they did and: a. the guns weren't automatic or semi-automatic killing machines, b. the mass media weren't around to tell everyone about the story, or c. the kids were off chasing 'niggers' instead.

To blame a rise in guns at schools on changing forms of discipline is to forget about the many chnages in our societies over the past 50 years - and is a little statistical licence if ever there was.

How does one discipline a child spiritually?

Does God/Jesus even care how you raise your kids?

Originally posted by Starrman
Of course it's of consequence. If you apply physical means of discipline to a child it will grow up accepting that smacking is okay. You clearly have no concept of what poor choice of discipline can do to a child, you're living in some Victorian workhouse ethic.

While I understand where you're coming from, Liam, I have to disagree. In my household, if I crossed my Father, he wouldn't think twice about giving me a good rap on the ass. That being said, I don't resent him (for that), I haven't grown up violent and I do not at all advocate physical discipline as an acceptable standard.

That being said, I do, however, feel that there are some children who require much more discipline than others, and in some cases, a spank on the ass may be warranted as an absolute last resort. Like DF said, when raising a child, they must have boundaries set for them and when Parents give into their wild-ass children, as they do all too often, all it does is teach them to be selfish and irresponsible.

I'd never hit my own children, but I fully support hitting other people's children with cricket bats. I have one in mind at the moment.

Originally posted by darvlay
Parents give into their wild-ass children, as they do all too often, all it does is teach them to be selfish and irresponsible.

From what I can tell, if a parent has children who are wild-ass routinely, the parent has already erred.

Originally posted by DragonFriend
And I suppose your opinion is the ONLY way to raise a child PROPERLY.
Generation upon generation in this country has been raised with spanking and we turned out OK. Now that we've this new "enlightened" way of raising our children to where we don't hurt the little egos, we're seeing kids taking guns to school and killing each other. Never before in the ...[text shortened]... a coincidence that its happening during this change in child discipline. Pleeeeeeze.

DF

Lol, trust me, you didn't turn out OK.