Originally posted by LordOfTheChessboard A far as I know they are against killing in any way. You will even see these monks walking looking at the ground to make sure they dont step on an ant. (of course there are other forms of buddhism but im talking about original buddhism)
Originally posted by KneverKnight I haven't had the experience of suffering through terminal cancer, but looking at others who have, I wonder if they wouldn't be forgiven if they took a little too much morphine and slipped away.
Exactly. Now keep going with that. Someone suffering a terminal and very painful illness decides to go heavy on the morphine or break out the old trusty .357 and pop it in their mouth. How is that anyone else's business? Certainly our politicians should stay out of it. Religion could play a role in comforting and counseling, absolutely, but to condem someone to hell for eternity, that just makes no sense.
In regards to the original question for this thread - why should a terminally ill person go to hell for suicide, in this case simply ending their own suffering?
I can't see it. To me it seems to be the best decision among a lot of bad choices.
Originally posted by wib Exactly. Now keep going with that. Someone suffering a terminal and very painful illness decides to go heavy on the morphine or break out the old trusty .357 and pop it in their mouth. How is that anyone else's business? Certainly our politicians should stay out of it. Religion could play a role in comforting and counseling, absolutely, but to condem someon ...[text shortened]... ffering?
I can't see it. To me it seems to be the best decision among a lot of bad choices.
I've cited this before, and no doubt I'll have to do it again:
Suicide
2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of.
2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.
2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.
Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.
2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives
Originally posted by lucifershammer I've cited this before, and no doubt I'll have to do it again:
Suicide
2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the l ...[text shortened]... ity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives[/b]
Originally posted by lucifershammer Proof by Sarcasm - how "true" defenders of common sense and logic argue their point.
Ok. So you sited a bunch of lines of Catholicism stating that, in summation - suicide is bad, but if you're really suffering God may cut you some slack.
Question - What does your personal faith/religion have to do with anyone else's beliefs? If someone has a different religious faith (or none) why should they be bound by laws/ethics/morals etc that initiate from another faith?
My Point - Attempting suicide should not be illegal. And people shouldn't be told that committing suicide is going to condemn them to an internity in Hell. This is simply blackmail and coercion used to enforce a set of religious beliefs. Both of those punishments are based on another person's religious beliefs. It's simply wrong.
Originally posted by wib Ok. So you sited a bunch of lines of Catholicism stating that, in summation - suicide is bad, but if you're really suffering God may cut you some slack.
Question - What does your personal faith/religion have to do with anyone else's beliefs? If someone has a different religious faith (or none) why should they be bound by laws/ethics/morals etc that initi ...[text shortened]... Both of those punishments are based on another person's religious beliefs. It's simply wrong.
How is it blackmail if you don't believe it / it is not your faith?
As to the illegality of suicide - I agree; people who try to commit suicide need help, not imprisonment.
EDIT: I keep hearing this "blackmail" argument over and over - but it makes no sense. Someone telling me I will go to hell for this or that action would only be blackmail if I actually believed them. But if I believe them, then both the person talking to me and I share the same faith - in which case it is not based on another person's religious beliefs but my own. How is it blackmail for someone to remind me of my own beliefs?
Originally posted by wib My Point - Attempting suicide should not be illegal. And people shouldn't be told that committing suicide is going to condemn them to an internity in Hell. This is simply blackmail and coercion used to enforce a set of religious beliefs. Both of those punishments are based on another person's religious beliefs. It's simply wrong.
In a society that wrote its laws completely by what is good for the society, suicide would still be illegal. The goal of a society (a group, a nation) is to survive, which means to have as many members as possible to continue on the society. If individuals are allowed to kill themselves or others in the society without any negative repercussions, then more and more people who have less and less serious problems with their own lives, or the lives of other members, will be ending those lives. This will become a drain on the society's population.
There is no need for any God or threats of eternal damnation to see why suicide (and homocide) must be regulated for a society to be successful in the long term.
Originally posted by echecero The goal of a society (a group, a nation) is to survive, which means to have as many members as possible to continue on the society.
The second part of this statement is highly questionable.
Originally posted by echecero In a society that wrote its laws completely by what is good for the society, suicide would still be illegal. The goal of a society (a group, a nation) is to survive, which means to have as many members as possible to continue on the society. If individuals are allowed to kill themselves or others in the society without any negative repercussions, then more ...[text shortened]... ee why suicide (and homocide) must be regulated for a society to be successful in the long term.
No. I can understand homicide being illegal, that's a direct violation of another person's human rights. But suicide? This goes back to the argument of a person having ownership of their own body.
Suicide has adverse effects, no doubt about it. Loved ones suffer because of the loss. But an individual's rights far outweigh those of some collective good involving reproduction and population.
Originally posted by echecero In a society that wrote its laws completely by what is good for the society, suicide would still be illegal. The goal of a society (a group, a nation) is to survive, which means to have as many members as possible to continue on the society.
So in this society being gay would be illegal? That doesn't increase the members of the society so it should be illegal right?
As should making a decision to not have children? And birthcontrol should be outlawed as well right?
Originally posted by LordOfTheChessboard Note that when I say: Buddhists are against killing I mean that they would never do it themselves. They dont tell others what to do.
Arent's there any laws against killing human beings in Buddhist countries then ?
30 Sep '05 10:22
Suicide
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