Taking the good

@fmf said
If you think your moral compass is better than, say, mine, because you have a God figure, then I get it. If your moral compass tells you that your life is one of depravity, evil, abominations, guilt and shame, then I suggest you try your best to be a better person.

If you keep looking at me and comparing me to you, you are not looking at what
a fixed point is, what you are doing is just comparing yourself to me who has all of
the same issues everyone else has. If we were ships in the ocean trying to find our
way home without a fixed point to get our bearings and all we had was the ability to
look at other ships we would never be able to plot a course, and this is you, always
comparing yourself to others.

The fixed point is Jesus Christ, not KellyJay, so when you spend all of your time
comparing yourself to me you miss Him.

@kellyjay said
Your refusal to say there is a good that applies to all, which isn't man-made.

A consensus between humans is certainly man-made. It is forged by communal living.

In my opinion, many of the things I perceive as evil should be - and are - seen by others as evil too.

This is how, communally, humans share clear consensuses about what is good and bad - even to the point of passing laws that societies - their members - consent to.

Gosh, KellyJay, it's as if you have not read any of my posts on the subject of morality.

@kellyjay said
The fixed point is Jesus Christ, not KellyJay, so when you spend all of your time
comparing yourself to me you miss Him.

The story of Jesus Christ is part of your "nurture". [It is, in part, an important element of my "nurture" too.] Your decision/instinct to perceive it - and propagate it - as a "fixed point" resides entirely in the realm of your subjectivity.

@kellyjay said
If you keep looking at me and comparing me to you, you are not looking at what
a fixed point is, what you are doing is just comparing yourself to me who has all of
the same issues everyone else has.

All we can do is compare our personal opinions, KellyJay. One of your personal opinions is that there is what you call a "fixed point" attendant to your moral compass that is derived from some ancient literature. Fair enough.

@kellyjay said
If it
is all man-made as you profess, why try them for what they did as if it were a
crime?

Because the moral consensus - according to the countless moral compasses that perceived and evaluated what had happened - among those who had defeated the Nazis and imprisoned them decided that the Nazis' actions were immoral and so punished them. What makes you think I would have been "against the Nuremberg trials"?

@kellyjay said
You see the ramification of your worldview
don't you, by make all things permissible without God you have justified everything?
You condemn them you are not acting consistently with what you profess.

Where have I said that my moral worldview "makes all things permissible" and "justifies everything"? You are making stuff up. Why can't you converse in good faith?

@fmf said
The story of Jesus Christ is part of your "nurture". [It is, in part, an important element of my "nurture" too.] Your decision/instinct to perceive it - and propagate it - as a "fixed point" resides entirely in the realm of your subjectivity.

Jesus is history, the prime reality, you turn into a fairy story to justify yourself.

@fmf said
Because the moral consensus - according to the countless moral compasses that perceived and evaluated what had happened - among those who had defeated the Nazis and imprisoned them decided that the Nazis' actions were immoral and so punished them. What makes you think I would have been "against the Nuremberg trials"?

moral consensus

@kellyjay said
Jesus is history, the prime reality, you turn into a fairy story to justify yourself.

Where did I refer to the narrative of Jesus as "a fairy story"? Don't be so disingenuous.

@kellyjay said
moral consensus

Of course. You don't think there are moral consensuses that bind groups of human beings together that they use to govern their interactions?

@fmf said
Of course. You don't think there are moral consensuses that bind groups of human beings together that they use to govern their interactions?

Oh no I firmly believe that we can find consensus among people, there was consensus for the acts done by the Nazi that were judged by consensus among those who judged the Nazi. So consensus is everywhere justifying everything and some different consensus will come around and judgment will be rendered on earlier consensus. As I told you we can justify everything without God and we can condemn anything equally too. God is constant and He judges by righteousness not the fickle musings of those at the top of the food chain at the moment.

I am sure that those who in large groups show up to rob a store in mass do so with consensus feeling justified as well. This is the world as is.

@fmf said
Of course. You don't think there are moral consensuses that bind groups of human beings together that they use to govern their interactions?

Consensus among people do you think it is a consistent standard or some are held to different standards than others? Good and evil are they made up by consensus if they are can anyone be treated unfairly if judged by consensus?

@kellyjay said
I am sure that those who in large groups show up to rob a store in mass do so with consensus feeling justified as well.

There are bad people in the world. If you wouldn't be able to discern that without your faith in Jesus, so be it.

@kellyjay said
Consensus among people do you think it is a consistent standard or some are held to different standards than others?

Moral values differ to varying degrees in different cultures and have differed down through history.

@kellyjay said
Good and evil are they made up by consensus if they are can anyone be treated unfairly if judged by consensus?

"Good" and "evil" are human constructs. Christians have various consensuses that they rally around. There is unfairness in the world.