Taking the good

@divegeester said
No, KellyJay’s version of Christianity is infinitely worse than a 100% pass benchmark, because everyone fails no matter what you do.

What you have to do is accept that you have failed [are 100%] evil and you don’t even care that you are going to be expelled into hell, but somehow find it in you to beg the teacher for a pass. Only a “few” do this, the special ones, the “called” ones.

If the benchmark is perfection everyone is missing the mark, do you believe that
is not the case? Is this going to be another question you avoid like the plague, as
you do most things put to you? Why did you accept Jesus Christ, exactly what did
you accept when you became a Christian, that you are one of the good people
and that Jesus just had some good things to say?

@kellyjay said
Really, you acknowledge that there is such a thing as depravity, and evil, that there
are abominations, these are realities you accept as true, not just that one has an
opinion of them?

I acknowledge that you have asserted there is "depravity" and "evil" and "abomination" and "guilt" and "shame" in YOUR life. I have never accused you of these things ~ although you do seem to be accusing me. The fact there are "evil" people and "evil" deeds is unaffected by your believer's perspective and my non-believer's perspective on it.

@fmf said
I acknowledge that you have asserted there is "depravity" and "evil" and "abomination" and "guilt" and "shame" in YOUR life. I have never accused you of these things ~ although you do seem to be accusing me. The fact there are "evil" people and "evil" deeds is unaffected by your believer's perspective and my non-believer's perspective on it.

It isn't my assertion that matters here, it is that goodness and evil are part of the
universe, not exclusively the opinions alone of man as you are still alleging even
here. To reduce both of those to human constructs is to deny they are anything
other than what we say they are no more no less. God who is the greatest of God
and the further away from we go, the eviler we are, for evil is nothing more than
the absence of good, and you are absent from the only One who is good.

@kellyjay said
It isn't my assertion that matters here, it is that goodness and evil are part of the
universe, not exclusively the opinions alone of man as you are still alleging even
here.

Your assertions about what you personally think is "evil" is the ONLY thing that matters here.

@kellyjay said
reduce both of those to human constructs is to deny they are anything
other than what we say they are no more no less.

I am describing them as what they are: human constructs. I am not "reducing" anything, other than keeping my observation succinct.

@kellyjay said
God who is the greatest of God
and the further away from we go, the eviler we are, for evil is nothing more than
the absence of good, and you are absent from the only One who is good.

If your belief in your God figure makes you feel or think that you are "evil", that is a matter for you. Asserting that I am "absent" from some divine/mythological being that appeals to your imagination [but I don’t believe in] does not manufacture a coherent accusation of [me supposedly being] "evil"

@fmf said
Your assertions about what you personally think is "evil" is the ONLY thing that matters here.

So what, if my assertion is true which is the whole point of making an assertion
then we do not get to decide what is good and evil truly those things are done
outside of us and if we cannot differentiate between the two it only shows how
lost we truly are in our endeavors in identifying them.

@kellyjay said
So what, if my assertion is true which is the whole point of making an assertion
then we do not get to decide what is good and evil truly those things are done
outside of us and if we cannot differentiate between the two it only shows how
lost we truly are in our endeavors in identifying them.

This riff you rely on is a dud.

If you do not have the ability to discern or evaluate the morality of something without reference to a God figure, then so be it.

But it's not a convincing stance you're taking if you believe that someone CANNOT differentiate between "good" and "evil" without reference to your particular God figure.

@fmf said
If your belief in your God figure makes you feel or think that you are "evil", that is a matter for you. Asserting that I am "absent" from some divine/mythological being that appeals to your imagination [but I don’t believe in] does not manufacture a coherent accusation of [me supposedly being] "evil"

Your assertion that this is nothing but my accretion so it doesn't matter is just an
assertion too, nothing meaningful, it is no different than saying here is a binary
choice, I believe one of them is right. The truth isn't going to be altered by who
believes what so just looking at only the fact that assertions are being made that
oppose one another on any discussion means that either both are wrong, or one
is right, that much we can be certain about. What is good, is it only in each of our
eyes, only we get to say this is good for us, and your views about me don't matter?

If you accept that then I suppose you would have been against the Nuremberg
trials after WW2, since those guys were only doing what they thought was right
at the time.

@kellyjay said
The truth isn't going to be altered by who
believes what so just looking at only the fact that assertions are being made that
oppose one another on any discussion means that either both are wrong, or one
is right, that much we can be certain about.

This riff doesn't work, KellyJay.

@kellyjay said
What is good, is it only in each of our
eyes, only we get to say this is good for us, and your views about me don't matter?

You want to talk about our individual moral compasses again? How they work and what they draw upon?

@kellyjay said
If you accept that then I suppose you would have been against the Nuremberg
trials after WW2, since those guys were only doing what they thought was right
at the time.

What makes you think I would have been "against the Nuremberg trials"?

@fmf said
What makes you think I would have been "against the Nuremberg trials"?

A standard was being applied to people at the time who were only doing what was
expected of them in their society. The crimes they did were not counter to their
own cultural norms at the time.

So after the war, war crimes were applied as if they should have known. An intrinsic
good and evil perhaps, difficult to say you are evil, and what you did was evil, if
everyone gets to make it up as they go. Unless you want to say what might makes
right, then good and evil are just who can kick whose butt to force them into
submission.

@kellyjay said
A standard was being applied to people at the time who were only doing what was
expected of them in their society. The crimes they did were not counter to their
own cultural norms at the time.

So after the war, war crimes were applied as if they should have known. An intrinsic
good and evil perhaps, difficult to say you are evil, and what you did was evil, if
everyone ...[text shortened]... ht makes
right, then good and evil are just who can kick whose butt to force them into
submission.

Yeah, but what makes you think I would have been "against the Nuremberg trials"?

@fmf said
Everyone is so evil they fully deserve never-ending vengeful punishment [misanthropy].

Christianity = misanthropy-+ narcissism

This won't happen to me because of specific thoughts I have in my head about myself and my God figure [narcissism].

Bump for fmf, notice what was said that you are responding to.