The apologetics game!

Originally posted by FMF
So do you or don't you accept the word of God (the Bible) as evidence to support the Christian gospel, doctrine and way of life?

You've already asked that question and I answered you. I said the Bible does indeed contain Christian doctrine.

I've read the gospels, and I'll occasionally study the letters that come after the gospels. I still have no idea what you mean when you say "evidence", but I've witnessed seeing passages dealing with doctrine. I've seen with my own eyes and have read the words printed in the gospels, and I'm continuing to read and think about words I've seen in the Bible that talk about how we are to conduct ourselves. And although those words were written down by men, I believe those words were inspired by God. I didn't always believe that... my own particular faith didn't come instantaneously and full blown overnight, it took several years of soul searching and working to understand what I was reading and hearing from other Christians just to get to where I am now.

I read an account one time by CS Lewis talking about what he went through before he came to the point where he could no longer deny the existence of God. That pretty much sums up my conversion. It didn't hit me one day like a bolt of lightening, it was more like hundreds of tiny like shocks taking place over several years. I was a tough nut to crack... and I thank God he didn't give up on me.

Originally posted by FMF
I went "to all the trouble of seeking and finding out" for many, many years, and my faith was strong. However, I lost my faith in the credibility of the Bible. As I am sure we can agree: there is no Christianity ~ or Christian beliefs ~ without the Bible.

That's like saying there is no Christ without the Bible. So how do you suppose Paul was able to be so clear and knowledgeable about Christ and his teachings without benefit of the New Testament? He wasn't even a disciple of Jesus before Jesus died, so how could Paul have known anything about him?

Originally posted by lemon lime
LOL

(

Mr Magoo

Originally posted by lemon lime
That's like saying there is no Christ without the Bible.

No it's not. It's saying there is no story of Christ ~ his deeds, his words, the purported meaning of his life ~ without the Bible.

Originally posted by lemon lime
I've read the gospels, and I'll occasionally study the letters that come after the gospels. I still have no idea what you mean when you say "evidence", but I've witnessed seeing passages dealing with doctrine.

What "evidence" do you have that led you to believe that Jesus rose from the dead aside from the accounts of it in the Bible?

Originally posted by lemon lime
You've already asked that question and I answered you. I said the Bible does indeed contain Christian doctrine.

But ~ in your view ~ the Bible doesn't present any evidence to support Christian doctrine, is that what you mean?

Originally posted by FMF
But ~ in your view ~ the Bible doesn't present any evidence to support Christian doctrine, is that what you mean?

OH good grief... are you asking me or telling me? Have you been reading my answers, or what?

Hey, I have an idea... I'm going to trade places with you for a moment and pretend I'm the mentalist here. Okay, I'm starting to get something ~ yes, I'm beginning to see an image now ~ ah yes, here it is... hmmm, this is very interesting!

So, do you run your own business? What I mean is are you the one in charge, and no one else instructs you in anyway or tells you what to do?

Oh wait, hold that thought... I just now tuned into something else. Back when you were a Christian, were you a member of a Pentecostal four-square Lutheran Catholic church? That would go a long way toward explaining the crazy quilt patchwork description of your former religious life.

There's more, but I need to adjust those stupid rabbit ears again... the reception here is terrible and... oh yeah, I should wrap aluminum foil around the antenna! Duh! Next time I'm at the grocery I'll pick up some aluminum foil. That should do the trick!

Originally posted by lemon lime
OH good grief... are you asking me or telling me? Have you been reading my answers, or what?

I am asking you. You say that you get Christian doctrine from the Bible but you also contend that the Bible doesn't present any evidence to support Christian doctrine. So by asking you, I am giving you the opportunity to clarify. You appear to be holding two mutually contradictory opinions at the same time. And for some reason you are equivocating rather than being clear about this contradiction.

Originally posted by lemon lime

Originally posted by lemon lime
Hey, I have an idea... I'm going to trade places with you for a moment and pretend I'm the mentalist here. Okay, I'm starting to get something ~ yes, I'm beginning to see an image now ~ ah yes, here it is... hmmm, this is very interesting!

So, do you run your own business? What I mean is are you the one in charge, and no one else instructs you in anyway or tells you what to do?

Oh wait, hold that thought... I just now tuned into something else. Back when you were a Christian, were you a member of a Pentecostal four-square Lutheran Catholic church? That would go a long way toward explaining the crazy quilt patchwork description of your former religious life.

There's more, but I need to adjust those stupid rabbit ears again... the reception here is terrible and... oh yeah, I should wrap aluminum foil around the antenna! Duh! Next time I'm at the grocery I'll pick up some aluminum foil. That should do the trick!

This is all mere deflection.

Originally posted by FMF
I am asking you. You say that you get Christian doctrine from the Bible but you also contend that the Bible doesn't present any evidence to support Christian doctrine. So by asking you, I am giving you the opportunity to clarify. You appear to be holding two mutually contradictory opinions at the same time. And for some reason you are equivocating rather than being clear about this contradiction.

If you wanted clarity you would have found it long before now. I believe what you are searching for here is not clarity, but anything you can find to support what you already believe. There's nothing I can say to change your mind, so why should I bother staying with you and your incessant questioning? Come on, admit it... you're not really looking for answers here; you never were.

Originally posted by lemon lime
If you wanted clarity you would have found it long before now. I believe what you are searching for here is not clarity, but anything you can find to support what you already believe. There's nothing I can say to change your mind, so why should I bother staying with you and your incessant questioning? Come on, admit it... you're not really looking for answers here; you never were.

More deflection.

My own theory is that you do not stand by what you were saying earlier on this thread ~ because, let's face it, it's self-contradicting nonsense ~ but you are instead trying to brazen it out with deflections and waffle-laden personal remarks.

If you do not accept the Bible as evidence supporting Christian doctrine, what evidence DO you have that supports Christian doctrine? Will you answer this question? You have dodged it page after page after page. 🙂

Originally posted by FMF
Originally posted by lemon lime
[b]Hey, I have an idea... I'm going to trade places with you for a moment and pretend I'm the mentalist here. Okay, I'm starting to get something ~ yes, I'm beginning to see an image now ~ ah yes, here it is... hmmm, this is very interesting!

So, do you run your own business? What I mean is are you the one in charge, an ...[text shortened]... y I'll pick up some aluminum foil. That should do the trick!

This is all mere deflection.[/b]

This is all mere deflection.


Deflection from what?

If you have a point to make and you don't think I've been cooperative in helping you get to that point, then maybe you should try something different....

... like just spitting it out and actually making your point, without trying to get someone else to make it for you.

If you have something to say, then why not just say it and be done with it?

Believing you've succeeded in tripping up someone you don't agree with will not help you to validate whatever point it is you want to make.

My beliefs do not reflect your beliefs. If I've deflected your reflection back onto you, then so what? That's where your reflection belongs... it belongs with you.

When you give nothing you get nothing. That's how life works.

Originally posted by lemon lime
Look up and study the word evidence... take a little time out of your busy day and put some effort into learning what that word actually means.

A basis for belief or disbelief; knowledge on which to base belief. An indication that makes something evident.

Originally posted by lemon lime
Deflection from what?

If you have a point to make and you don't think I've been cooperative in helping you get to that point, then maybe you should try something different....

... like just spitting it out and actually making your point, without trying to get someone else to make it for you.

If you belongs... it belongs with you.

When you give nothing you get nothing. That's how life works.

You're still deflecting.

If you do not accept the Bible as evidence that (for example) Christ rose from the dead, what evidence DO you have that supports your belief that Christ rose from the dead?

I think you misstated your stance on what the Bible represents earlier on this thread, and rather than admit it, you are attempting to brazen it out.

Originally posted by FMF
More deflection.

My own theory is that you do not stand by what you were saying earlier on this thread ~ because, let's face it, it's self-contradicting nonsense ~ but you are instead trying to brazen it out with deflections and waffle-laden personal remarks.

If you do not accept the Bible as evidence supporting Christian doctrine, what evidence DO you hav ...[text shortened]... stian doctrine? Will you answer this question? You have dodged it page after page after page. 🙂

I won't answer every question you ask. Why should I answer any of your questions?

You of all people should know why, because of what Jesus told his followers to not do. The more you talk the harder it is for me to believe you ever took anything Jesus said seriously. I'm trying to believe you, but how can anyone have been a Christian for nearly 30 years and know so little about what it means to be a Christian?