The Atheist and God

Originally posted by Halitose
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

How does that say one has to believe it to be saved?

Originally posted by frogstomp
How does that say one has to believe it to be saved?

I'd warrant "Cometh unto the Father" as = being saved. Maybe he's saying "You have to believe that I am Jesus the Christ"? Pretty specious, I know. :-/

Originally posted by LemonJello
Matthew 25:35-40:

"For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed [thee]? or thirsty, and gave [ ...[text shortened]... on whether or not god knows you.
2. many atheists are better known to god than many christians.

Can you honestly imagine that if uou were right down on your luck you could knock on their door, or ask someone in the street, to buy you some meat, a drink (perhaps - unless they have been robbed before) and that you were so tired and somebody offered you a bed for the night.
You wake up and ask for some clothes, some medicine and then expect someone to visit you in prison?

Not nowadays. In fact not ever! Not that many years ago you would of been thrown into a workhouse. And we have all read about those dammed places.

Okay frogstomp, here you go:

Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Happy now?

Originally posted by Halitose
Okay frogstomp, here you go:

Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Happy now?

At that particular time he was talking to people that sought to kill him, and not about salvation.
I find it rather telling that you cant find a suitable quote in the three Synoptic Gospels.

Assuming the christian god exists, do you agree or disagree with the following claims?
1. salvation hinges not on whether or not you know god, but on whether or not god knows you.
2. many atheists are better known to god than many christians.[/b]

1. While I would like to answer yes or no, I shall abstain.
2. I believe many atheists ACT more Christian like than many self labeled "Christians".

Originally posted by LemonJello
what about the implicit atheist?

Not sure what it is. Could you clarify please?

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Not sure what it is. Could you clarify please?

from what i could tell, your former post referred only to the explicit atheist: one who, as you put it, 'wilfully and knowingly rejects God' (or more generally, one who consciously and explicitly adopts a lack of belief in god). i am interested in what you think about the implicit atheist: one who lacks belief in god, but has not explicitly rejected or denied theism. but more specifically, i am interested in the person who is an implicit atheist with respect to the christian god.

as an example: consider a person who has never heard of christianity and has no idea what the bible is or says. clearly, this person lacks a belief in the christian god, but this lack of belief was not adopted explicitly (since he has never even been introduced to the concept of the christian god). with respect to the christian god, this person is an implicit atheist.

i am wondering what you think about the fate of this aforementioned person. if faith in the christian god is a necessary condition for salvation, then clearly this person is doomed.

Originally posted by Halitose
Acknowledging Jesus and accepting him as your Saviour is just the first step of becoming more like him.

so suppose an atheist wakes up one morning and decides a couple of things: 1. he is going to stop raping, murdering, and pillaging innocent people for fun like he has grown accustomed to and 2. he is going to keep on rejecting jesus.

then, upon enacting this plan, this atheist is not becoming more like jesus because...why exactly???

Originally posted by LemonJello
from what i could tell, your former post referred only to the explicit atheist: one who, as you put it, 'wilfully and knowingly rejects God' (or more generally, one who consciously and explicitly adopts a lack of belief in god). i am interested in what you think about the implicit atheist: one who lacks belief in god, but has not explicitly rejected or ...[text shortened]... the christian god is a necessary condition for salvation, then clearly this person is doomed.

"Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life."

- Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, Lumen Gentium. Vatican II

Originally posted by LemonJello
so suppose an atheist wakes up one morning and decides a couple of things: 1. he is going to stop raping, murdering, and pillaging innocent people for fun like he has grown accustomed to and 2. he is going to keep on rejecting jesus.

then, upon enacting this plan, this atheist is not becoming more like jesus because...why exactly???

Jesus submitted to the authority of the Father.

Originally posted by frogstomp
At that particular time he was talking to people that sought to kill him, and not about salvation.
I find it rather telling that you cant find a suitable quote in the three Synoptic Gospels.

Then read carefully, because in His defence, he is affirming that for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Originally posted by frogstomp
At that particular time he was talking to people that sought to kill him, and not about salvation.
I find it rather telling that you cant find a suitable quote in the three Synoptic Gospels.

I find it rather telling that you cannot read and understand the scriptures.

Now then how's this for your security?

Matthew 18:6 - But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Originally posted by frogstomp
How does that say one has to believe it to be saved?

Mark 16:16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Luke 8:12 - Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

John 3:15 - That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:18 - He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36 - He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Originally posted by dj2becker
I find it rather telling that you cannot read and understand the scriptures.

Now then how's this for your security?

Matthew 18:6 - But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

I wonder what he meant by "offend".

There must be degrees of damnation if suicide is preferable to child molestation from a hereafter perspective.

Was that where the idea of Purgatory came from?