The Atheist and God

Originally posted by lucifershammer
But even if the person is inert, would he not still be aware of the world around him and of himself? Would he still not think? Does "being" imply "doing"?

It's tricky, by your mere existence, you can potentially have some causal influence, be it unmeasureable by human means (chaos theory I suppose) and your energy consumption, even if you are just thinking, will diminish the resources of the planet. I guess it's a bit like Schrödinger's cat.

However I believe Bosse de Nage was alluding to the interactive part of consciousness. On this level I agree with him. If an entity does not interact with other entities on a conscious and active level, his existence may as well not be. In this way 'being' is relative to those beings around you.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Don't knock all of Christianity because of certain views. The majority of Christians aren't OSAS.

Who said I was OSAS?

Originally posted by Halitose
Who said I was OSAS?

Someone once said that the Baptists don't believe in backsliding, they only practise it. 😀

Am I right in assuming that OSAS = Once Saved Always Saved?

Originally posted by Halitose
Who said I was OSAS?

Apologies. The formulation of your statement

All I can ever be assured of is my own salvation.

made me think that you were OSAS (dj2 - Yes, that's "Once Saved Always Saved"; AFAICS, pretty much the same as sola fide and 'justification by faith'😉. Of course, on reflection, I see that it is not necessarily the case (and your complete post, from which this quote is taken, suggests otherwise).

It would make things much more clear, however, if you could clarify whether you think it is belief in Christ (i.e. acknowledging Jesus Christ as the Incarnation, the Saviour etc.) or in God (in whatever form He is known to one) that forms the necessary condition for salvation. The answer to this question would also answer LJ's question.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Apologies. The formulation of your statement

[b]All I can ever be assured of is my own salvation.

made me think that you were OSAS (dj2 - Yes, that's "Once Saved Always Saved"; AFAICS, pretty much the same as sola fide and 'justification by faith'😉. Of course, on reflection, I see that it is not necessarily the case (and your com ...[text shortened]... necessary condition for salvation. The answer to this question would also answer LJ's question.[/b]

Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

I can say that for me, personally, it is a belief in Christ that forms a necissary condition for salvation.

Originally posted by Halitose
Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

I can say that for me, personally, it is a belief in Christ that forms a necissary condition for salvation.

So why isn't there a concern for the ACTUAL world we live in, like
actually taking care of a woman who is forced to bear the burdon
of carrying full term the child of a rapist when those around her
do not allow her to have an abortion because of so-called religious
reasons, then abandon the mother and child to a system that
enslaves them both for the rest of their lives. Why don't you have
debates about that rather than all this utter clap trap of "saving"
your pathetic so-called debatable soul? The problem here is
none of this bullcrap is from god, if indeed there really is such a thing,
it ALL comes from men, and notice the MEN part, not many women
allowed in the dogma club, beings how its all about the subjugation
of personal freedoms and in particular the subjugation of women.
Why don't you debate these criminal acts?

Originally posted by sonhouse
So why isn't there a concern for the ACTUAL world we live in, like
actually taking care of a woman who is forced to bear the burdon
of carrying full term the child of a rapist when those around her
do not allow her to have an abortion because of so-called religious
reasons, then abandon the mother and child to a system that
enslaves them both for the ...[text shortened]... freedoms and in particular the subjugation of women.
Why don't you debate these criminal acts?

Sure. Why don't you start such a debate. I completely agree with you that just talking about it, won't solve the ills in our world.

concern for the ACTUAL world we live in

For the last 4 years, I've been working as a volunteer in a non-profit organisation amongst AIDS orphans in Africa.

taking care of a woman who is forced to bear the burden of carrying full term the chill of a rapist...then abandon the mother and child to a system

agree with you again there.